Ok, so here's another one of those giant toss ups. The kind that has been so prevalent around this board. Since the previous ones have been so informative and helpful, I am gonna post this one and would love to hear your opinions as they are invaluable. I hope to get some responses.

Chapman and Columbia are the two schools that I'm debating and got into. In so many ways, the programs couldn't be any more different although both are great for different reasons;
here is the breakdown as i see it:

1) Reels - I got the promotional DVD form Chapman and a DVD containing Columbia's last film festival. So I was able to watch work from both schools. I have to say I was significantly more impressed with Columbia's films.
The production Value on the chapman reel is higher,but for the most part what I saw were pretty generic "genre" pieces that look more like "hollywood calling cards" than great shorts on their one right. Columbia's movies, for the most part, are less flashy, but have great stories and stand on their own as great little short movies. I also understand that Columbia has been doing incredibly well in film festivals, better than Chapman overall if I'm not mistaken.
There is also something to be said for the fact that Columbia included almost 20 movies on their DVD and Chapman only 5. If these are the five movies Chapman is most proud of, well, that raises some questions (at least to my sensibilities as a filmmaker).
That said, I am questioning whether this means I will be making better movies at Columbia. I know for a fact I don't want to be making the kind of movies Chapman offered on it's reel - but I think perhaps I could do whatever movies I like, so maybe this shouldn't be thta big a factor?

2) Price Tag... that's a big one. Columbia is nearly 40k a year and chapman is 26k.
Columbia's program is only 2 years at full tuition and chapman is three - however - Chapman gives you 20k to make your thesis film - so basically most of the third year tuition comes right back to you.

if i factor in 20k for a thesis film, the over all cost of education (not including living and fees) would be:
columbia - 100k-110k
chapman - 80k...

but i also got a fellowship offer from Chapman to the tune of 6k - so that drops Chapman to around 60k for me.

I did not get a fellowship offer from Columbia.

3) Facilities. Basically best versus worst. Columbia has the poorest facilities Chapman has the best. I am skeptical (especially in lieu of the reels) how much good facilities translate to good movies, but I guess they can't hurt.

4) Location. A huge city versus a small suburb. I've been living in NY for a while now and like my environment, not to mention I have good friends and support here. On the other hand, Chapman can be an isolated environment that would offer maximum focus on making good work.

5) teaching style - conservatory versus not. I feel like Chapman would be very specific in teaching in terms of directing - on the other hand I understand Columbia helps you be more of a writer/director - and helps you develop a feature script on top of you thesis film even if you end up concentrating on directing. That's a plus, cause it will give you momentum once you hit the festival circuits with your thesis film.

6)Name of school. Columbia's an Ivy league, Chapman, the school, is pretty much a no name school. Although this might not reflect directly on the film program - one can have a more challenging environment in Columbia. Also, if it ever cam down to teaching (which might very well be an option down the road, if all else fails), I feel Columbia's name will carry much more weight on one's resume.

I'de love to hear what you all think. This is an incredibly difficult decision, and this forum has been nothing but supportive. Please let me know what you think and why.

Thanks so much,

I have heard that for those production who are already well versed in production or have a film production undergrad, the first year can be bypassed and you kind of hit the ground running working on projects. Not sure if you knew this or considered that in factoring into your cost of attendance estimates.

which school are you referring to Seventh? - both seem to have a "foundation" kind of year, but how will that effect the cost?
Regardless, I actually don't have much experience in film production, my undergrad is in Animation - so I think I will be needing that.

I was referring to Chapman. Since you have animation experience, you're probably one of those students who would most benefit from that motion capture stage at Chapman. Have you seen it? Pretty crazy.

Birdman,

If you are serious about becoming a filmmaker, and don't want to end up making the typical Hollywood genre film, I highly suggest you look into Columbia.

At Columbia, you will focus on your voice as a filmmaker, the types of stories you want to tell, and will develop an unbelievable feature-length screenplay that will be your calling card for when you graduate. On top of that, you will be making shorts that have artistic value, rather than high production value (If you ask any serious filmmaker, they will choose a good story over pretty images).

If you are looking for films with high production value, but which lack any substance what-so-ever (One tiny exception is Mamacita, one of Chapman's best films. It was good, but a far cry from the engaging stories Columbia students produce each year).

If you want to be closer to Hollywood, and want to make the type of films Hollywood produces each year (high grossing, unbelievably generic films) maybe Chapman would be a better fit.

But if you want to make stories that challenge the audience, stories that make you dig deep inside yourself to find your inner-voice, stories that will move people...I highly suggest Columbia.

And for all of the Chapman people who are going to go off on me, go ahead. I have no shame speaking the truth.

yeah - it's nuts! I'm mostly a 2d guy - but I understand how 3d and mo-cap work. I'll definitely play around with it if I go there.

dear birdman78,

Since everybody agreed on the fact that there is no universally good school, I just would like to comment on what you said, which is in fact also what you care about.

In my opinion you have already decided to go to Columbia. Based on what you say, you criticize Columbia only about its expensive tuition and its poor facilities and you state very positive things about NYC. I mean you don't say something like "I love NYC but I need a change in my life."

If you think that you can handle it financially, I believe you should really and really go to Columbia. Maybe when you won't choose Chapman, you'll think that you missed your chances to study there, BUT that would be about it for you. I think you want Columbia.

If you want to be closer to LA then you can also consider going to Chapman but you can always go to LA and produce a movie like Mr. & Mrs. Smith...

If you already know about animation, I think to combine your technical background with a story-telling-oriented graduate program would make you very diverse.

Hey, I am waitlested at Columbia, so you can be sure that I am sincere about my thoughts
GOOD LUCK

Got to tell ya Bandar, when I took the AFI tour, the two films they showed me (a cycle project and a thesis film) were both completely disappointing. Sure, out of the Chapman DVD, Mamitas was the stand out film, one that had substance and a voice, but still, can we really judge the programs on the basis of a few films chosen for us to see? I don't think we've seen the best films from Chapman, but I believe there are better out there. I'm sure that's true of AFI as well. I don't know if it's fair to make the generalization you've made about Chapman and what will films WILL BE made there in the future.

Also, my previous comment was to serve as an example in trying to compare two schools, which for me was Chapman and AFI, and not to start a new discussion on which is better program. Good luck bird.

ADA,

if you ever decide to change your path, you could easily become a stellar shrink! lol... very interesting read, and thanks for being sincere (have you been accepted to any other schools?).

I am going to Chapman next week to hang out for a bit and get a better feel. I suspect Columbia might have an edge because I just spent more time there (attending classes and such) because of my proximity.

and yeah, the financial thing is a big one.

Thanks for your response.

Seventh,

I'm actually very very optimistic about Chapman for the future (in say, about 5 years).

It will eventually rise to the top, given its unbelievable facilities and staff. But right now, it is far from there in terms of pushing students to make engaging and personal films that have artistic value.

And I agree with you about the AFI cycle films I saw during the tour. I was completely dissapointed! That said, I have been attending the Narrative Analysis workshop every Friday @ AFI where they screen cycle films from current students, and have been completely blown away by them. I have seen about 12 cycle films so far in that workshop, and am beyond words.

But again, it is not the school that produces these good students. It is the students who produce these schools!

Bandar,

Do you have links to any of your work online?

ok, I admit:
My 'shrink' attitude was 'partially' inspired by a british movie, "the very thought of you" There is a doctor gives an advice(just like'you already know what you want but can't admit your decision' crap) to his neighbor (Joseph Fiennes) who thinks during the whole movie that he is a real psychotherapist. He even says that he cured him but at the end he finds out that he is an engineer with a PhD degree - So yeah, now you know lol!

but I AM sincere really. I only applied for Columbia but don't feel sad or anything. I will SO apply for Peter Stark Program, i really started to like that one after my friend (who is a student there) talked about it. I haven't graduated yet from undergrad anyway.

REALLY, good luck, and congratulations!

Bandar,

about the generic stuff, that *IS* what I mostly saw on the reel, but I'm looking to see other projects as well. I find it mindboggling, that an amazing guy like, Dezso Magyar, who interviewd me, and seems to have a lot of influence at Chapman, wouldn't bring along and encourage more European and art-house sensibilities in his students.
I'm gonna try to set up a meeting with him and hear about his approach... because in our interview, he kept mentioning David Lynch (who also previously went to art school), and was excited that I was kind of a fine artist that got into film.

I'm thinking that maybe under the mentorship of people like him, and maybe because the class size is so small (14 total), I'll be given space and personal guidance to grow in whichever direction I'm inclined. Which is by the way a middle ground between art house, and main stream.

just a thought, but class size was one thing i dodn't mention in my "pros" and "cons".

Bird,

When are you headed out to Orange County? I am thinking of going out next weekend to watch some thesis projects. Grads are Friday, undergrad Saturday.

Bandar,

I am looking at going to the narrative workshop screening/discussion at AFI next Friday. Will you be going?

I was gonna go this weekend and probably miss the screenings - because my friend in San Diego is throwing a party. I hope they'll make some movies available for me to watch on DVD on campus.

I'm still waiting to hear from the Grad assistant if i can sit in on classes. That's very important - waiting for answers before i book my flight.

You're saying you'll be there next weekend?
my plans are still somewhat flexible. If I am gonna postpone it I'll let you know and we can meet up.

Seventh,

Yeah, I'll be there. It begins at six. Let's meet up before hand for coffee at the Starbucks on Hollywood/Western.

PM me for my contact info.

There's also a different philosophy with how the schools choose to interact with their students. From my personal experience I picked Chapman because of their courtesy and willingness to accommodate their students. I'm talking about my interaction with the school completely separated from anything film related.

Columbia on the other hand expects you, as a student, to survive on your own. If you need help you have to go out and get it. If you want to try anything different, usually academically, then you'll have to fight really hard against their pretty rigid system.

I did fight with the idea of how "Chapman" might "cheapen" my ivy league undergraduate degree. But in the end I concluded that I was really not interested in attending another school of egos. That and they had the joint program I was looking for.

red... did you take film for your undergrad?

i didn't graduate with a film degree, just an engineering, but i was a double major in film and engineering for a couple years, so I took several classes in film and other visual arts departments.

It's very possible that their undergraduate film is different from graduate. In terms of curriculum, not in facilities, i know those are the same. I had a friend who did do the film program as an undergrad and got rejected from Tisch for graduate. go figure..there must be a reason for Columbia to be a top 5 school.