Thank god Jay and NotaMono brought some sense back to this forum. This guy was starting to give me a headache. Jay's first post basically reaffirmed mine just better written.

Tone down the ego trip or all the talent in the world won't help you.

Cammo

I think J. Mike said it best.

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I'm assuming you aren't directing the films for this indie film company... that'll take a minute.

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uh... yeah i am. wrote and directed my first short film with silvercloud producions (an actual company- not just a name i put in the credits) and have 2 more in development.

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Well you are coming off as a typical egotistical film school noob,

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thanks. its not my fault i know what i like. it pisses me off how idecisive people are. i make it a point to tell it how i see it, and so far its gotten me places-- not gotten me fired, as you suggested. you dont have to give me life lessons. i know how to handle myself and how to control myself when necessary. im not just an unchecked id. anyway, you can make all the assumptions you want about me-- in the end, youre only looking like an ass in my eyes. at least ive not made any assumtions about you.

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in response to nota mono, i shoot film because it is a challenge and because there are more things you can control. dv just looks like dv (unless you manipulate it in post on a computer)-- i like to keep my films as much away from computers as possible. thre are so mny possibilities in film that dv just doesnt offer. and thanks for the welcome.

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with music it really doesnt matter. ill admit i dont know too much about anything technical as far as music goes. but i know what i like, and thats all i need to know. my trusted sound technicial will deal with the rest... i just tell him how i like it.

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baloo...erm...
srry... it doesnt matter what format the movie is shot on....
if the story sucks, nobody will give a ****...

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ill agree with that. but say you have an excellent story shot on dv, and thesame one shot on film... i say the film is more of an accomplishment. while it is great to have a good story shot on dv, it is even better to have a good story shot on film. with me, the delema isnt about whethere i have a good story or not-- is whether or not i shoot it on film. if i couldnt shoot my stuff on film, i wouldnt shoot it at all.

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Tone down the ego trip or all the talent in the world won't help you.

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keep telling yourself that. in the not so famous words of john hay (secretary to pres abraham lincoln), "no great man is ever modest."

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I think J. Mike said it best.

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i have said on many occasions, you cant make a good film from a bad screenplay.

You're something else man.... hopefully that tirade you're on gets you places. But don't assume that what you're currently doing is the end of the road... far from it.

The "assumptions" you've made thus far are that you are somehow gods gift to film and that everyone around you is an idiot.... all this from a kid still in film school. Not surprising.

You know, I'm also very confident in my skill (call it talent). But I'm smart enough to realize how MANY talented people abound in Hollywood not to mention around the world (speaking of which: my wife's agency just signed a young director from Budapest last week -- I'll let you know the name of the film tomorrow -- but you are competing with people like that as well, not just American film students)... so yes, even if you are as talented as you "claim" to be (which I don't think we've seen evidence of yet), you are but one of many trying to make their way.... the people with good attitudes will get the breaks you "might" have gotten. I don't know anyone that would "help" a kid with your attitude. But if you think it's gonna work for you (long run), stick with it...

Go head with your smartazz reply now.... it's what you do, right.


Jay

Just a quick question for ya, Baloo.

If you're such a bigshot, out there making your own films and working with a real company, then what are you doing on this forum?

I would have thought that someone with all the talent and enthusiasm that you profess to possess would find a better and more productive use of his time than coming online and picking fights with people whom you have an obvious disrespect and disliking for.

Oh, and by the way, Mr. Film School Grad, it's spelled amoeba.

~S.A.

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don't assume that what you're currently doing is the end of the road... far from it.

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yes, yes, i know that. for gods sake i hope i go somewhere bigger than this.

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The "assumptions" you've made thus far are that you are somehow gods gift to film and that everyone around you is an idiot.... all this from a kid still in film school. Not surprising.

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i never said i was a know-all gift to film. i just know a bit more than most- thats all, and i attribute that to my higher eductaion in film school. if i was in law school, i would feel the same about law. you cant berate me for having a sense of pride for my school, my major or my career goals. and most of all, you cant berate me for my talent.

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even if you are as talented as you "claim" to be (which I don't think we've seen evidence of yet), you are but one of many trying to make their way.... the people with good attitudes will get the breaks you "might" have gotten.

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i wouldnt post my films on here ever. well, as long as it costs money i wont. i would be glad to send a screenplay to your wife to review-- one my copyrights come through of course.

anyway, i know plenty of bad people who have gotten breaks-- i hope youre not as idealistic and naive as you portray yourself on here with your "good people get breaks" stuff.

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Go head with your smartazz reply now.... it's what you do, right.

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well, of course... isnt life just a series of replies?



nah, im kidding.


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If you're such a bigshot, out there making your own films and working with a real company, then what are you doing on this forum?

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whoa... i may have a job in the field, but im by no means a big shot. give me a few years, and then maybe ill have less time to visit you and your friends here.

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Oh, and by the way, Mr. Film School Grad, it's spelled amoeba.

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oh, and by the way, Mr. [fill in the blank with some lackluster accomplishment], its spelled both ways.

further- im not a graduate yet.

baloo - i have to hand it to you, you're civil and you stick to your point even when no one else agrees.

Dear Mr Baloo.
I too am a film student, I go to the university of Texas and we now boast one of the best film school in the country with our burnt orange productions. i am currently interning with a film production company in the UK and During this experience i have done some expenditures for some short films made here. It costs upwards of $8000.00 to shoot on 35mm film, I talked to the producers and the film turned out sucking, i dont care what the thing is shot on its goota be a good Movie first and foremost. Good for you if you have skill but there are people out there who dont and they are wasting TONS of money shooting on film. If more people used DV for short films it would save producers a lot of money searching for real talent. If you were a producer and someone pitched an i dea for a movie and you wanted them to make a Short first just to see what they are like and if they can handle a story and actors and have real talent would you have them shoot on film or DV. Dv definately has its advantages although Film is still the preferred and better looking medium, but for people still finding their way its not worth wasting peoples time and money buying rolls of Film.

For the record that 8000.00 dollars spent on 35mm film was for a 10 minute movie. that sucked i might add!

*sigh*

So, in related news, the XL2 will be available by the end of the year! And it shoots film quality pictures at variable speeds 3-50fps!

I know I'm excited!

Nota "Pavlov" Mono

"ill agree with that. but say you have an excellent story shot on dv, and thesame one shot on film... i say the film is more of an accomplishment. while it is great to have a good story shot on dv, it is even better to have a good story shot on film. with me, the delema isnt about whethere i have a good story or not-- is whether or not i shoot it on film. if i couldnt shoot my stuff on film, i wouldnt shoot it at all."


yeah, so lets put this into perspective....
you shoot a 35mm film, awesome story, great cast, etc.

i have shot on DV...STILL, story, etc. AWESOME.....

we submit to festivals, both get rave reviews, and get a distribution gig...

But... i win because i saved THOUSANDS, and can now use the money for either a) promotion, etc..
or b) use the money i saved for another feature....

the tremendous amount of debt you have amassed, compared to the very smart move i made----well, i win;

your actor misses a cue while filming---you wasted stock... my actor misses a cue...I REWIND, AND RE-RECORD....

oh, and while you are broke, i just buy a copy of MAGICBULLET, apply the effects, and now... i saved a *****load of money, and it looks like it was shot on film...


cheers

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Originally posted by J.MICHAEL:
the tremendous amount of debt you have amassed, compared to the very smart move i made----well, i win;

your actor misses a cue while filming---you wasted stock... my actor misses a cue...I REWIND, AND RE-RECORD....

oh, and while you are broke, i just buy a copy of MAGICBULLET, apply the effects, and now... i saved a *****load of money, and it looks like it was shot on film...

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You should care more about your chosen craft. It sounds like you're more interested in fleecing your audience than providing quality art/product.

I may disagree that people should always and only shoot film, but don't insult your viewers intelligence by suggesting it doesn't matter. A Casio keyboard can play the same sheet music as a grand piano. People can still tell the difference. Your audience might not walk out of a theater being able to specify what format something was shot on, but they can feel it.

Art and craft are different things, but they're not mutually exclusive events. Da Vinci could've saved a lot of money by making the Mona Lisa with crayons.

Nota "Who needs a Ferrari, when they can have a Fiero?" Mono

exactly some of the points Rodriguez made.

Baloo, you seem to think that making a movie on digital video is.....easy, and the final product isn't as good cause not a lot of money went into it (not having to spend lots of cash on film) This is so not true. Making a movie, no matter what format, is not easy. And to say that doing it the harder more expensive way is better just for the sake that you put LOTS of money into it is....well stupid.

I just don't see why you would want to waste so much money on film when you can do the same and so much more digitaly.

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you cant berate me for having a sense of pride for my school, my major or my career goals. and most of all, you cant berate me for my talent.

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That's not my goal... my words have nothing to do with any of that. Look, you are on the defensive (now) for a reason. It takes a big person to admit to acting the wrong way, to apologize, and then to move on. Actions like that are what gain respect... and self respect.


think about that....

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anyway, i know plenty of bad people who have gotten breaks-- i hope youre not as idealistic and naive as you portray yourself on here with your "good people get breaks" stuff.

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Not hardly idealistic or naive. But I do know the realities of the business. Sure bad people have gotten breaks. What I said was, it's "easier" if people LIKE you. That "should" make perfect sense to you....

What IS idealistic is to think that just because you have some degree of talent that you can treat people like crap and still get help along the way...

My wife doesn't have time to read scripts unless they are VERY good [all of which are brought in through another agent, lawyer, manager, publisher, etc.]. The contest thing was really only a one time event (unfortuantly). But if you 'tone it down' i'll read your script, if it's great I'll pass it to my wife. Like I said, 'if you tone it down'. Imagine how much "easier" it would be to help you if you were respectful and said something like.... "hey Jay, I think I have a really amazing script, do you mind reading it and if it's good pass it on to your wife". That would be know as a BIG BREAK, not too many people's scripts make it to my wife's hands. Like I said, it's easier to get help if people like you personally....


Your excitement for film seems to be manifested in negativity, why not flip that around. What would the benefits be to YOU? People respecting your opinions, not having to go on the defensive here (and maybe elsewhere --- it sounds to me like you are venting your frustrations with your classmates on us), sharing your knowledge and having younger dudes stoked on it, and most importantly, having a career that unfolds more readily. Sure, have confidence and all the rest of it, but you can chose how you present that to world. Which way would MORE people be receptive to (?)... especially people in the business that you need help from to advance further.

This not about me trying to win this argument.... far from it.



Jay

And BTW--


I'm burning a few CD's to send off to these people (as we speak). The producers of Spun, two of the contributing producers on Requiem, another producer who's yet to do anything big but has a pretty good deal (you haven't heard of him I'm sure), and to a manager (you don't know him) that reps newer film makers that do flicks in the few mil range, and I'm waiting to hear back from the producer of American Movie about a doc. Plus I might do another doc about China Town. As well as other stuff....


That's the kind of stuff I'm going up for as of late...


Jay

This message has been edited. Last edited by: jay888,

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baloo - i have to hand it to you, you're civil and you stick to your point even when no one else agrees.

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yeah. i have a habit of that.

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Good for you if you have skill but there are people out there who dont and they are wasting TONS of money shooting on film

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i would have to agree with this. too many people write crappy screenplays then go out and buy film and rent a camera, shoot it, and pretty much waste money- all because they want to write and direct their own film when, really, they know nothing about writing at all. like i said somewhere else on thier board, a good move starts with a good screenplay- and yo ucant make a good movie from a crappy screenplay. and it is not just a question of whethere you "have it or not"- most people just dont know the mechanics os screenwriting. thats why i encourage all of you (if you havent) to take some sort of class on screenwriting at a junior college or university.

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For the record that 8000.00 dollars spent on 35mm film was for a 10 minute movie. that sucked i might add!

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thats a shame. 8,00 is a lot to spend on a 35 mm film. the budget i had on my last film was $3000 for a 16mm short that will be about 10-12 minutes (its in post). the next project im doing i did not write, and the only way i agreed to do it was if we brought in a screenwriter to doctor up the screenplay (it was a mess)-- anyway, our budget is about 12,000 and right now we are shooting on 16mm (although we will most likely end up shooting it on 35 and upping our budget).

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we submit to festivals, both get rave reviews, and get a distribution gig...
But... i win because i saved THOUSANDS, and can now use the money for either a) promotion, etc..
or b) use the money i saved for another feature....

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well, i know you probably dont know about distribution deals, but if we went to a festival and got a deal, most likely it would be a negative pick up deal... and what this means is they would do all the distribution for you, as well as pay you back for the money you spent on the film. so there is no point in saving that money because, if you get a distribution deal you wont be paying for any of the promotion, etc. (unless you dont know any better and you sign to a crappy deal).

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the tremendous amount of debt you have amassed, compared to the very smart move i made----well, i win;

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who said anything about amassing debt? you say that like up putting these productions on my own personal credit card. haha.

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your actor misses a cue while filming---you wasted stock...

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well, you kind of count on those things. the trick is to raise a big enough budget so that youre comfortable and dont have to worry if you have enough stock. plus, the other thing you have to do is reherse with your actors before shooting. if you dont, youll not only waste money on set, but also time.

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oh, and while you are broke, i just buy a copy of MAGICBULLET, apply the effects, and now... i saved a *****load of money, and it looks like it was shot on film...

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no amount of after affects could ever bring the prestige and respect of having actually shot something on film. film presents challenges and artistic options that dv just doesnt have.

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I just don't see why you would want to waste so much money on film when you can do the same and so much more digitaly.

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because i dont see it as a waste-- i see it as an artistic choice, and a way to show that i know how to work on film, and also that i know film has a quality and challenge that fuilfils many implications about me a s a producer, photographer, director, writer, etc. personally, when i am bringing someone into crew on of my productions, i am much more impressed if they have a lot of experence working in film vs dv.

like i said before, when people see that you can get a movie made on film (which presents not only the challenge of $$$, but also many others) it says a lot about you, especially if you just a young person, as most of us are.

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like i said before, when people see that you can get a movie made on film (which presents not only the challenge of $$$, but also many others) it says a lot about you, especially if you just a young person, as most of us are.

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True....



Jay

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Look, you are on the defensive (now) for a reason. It takes a big person to admit to acting the wrong way, to apologize, and then to move on.

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i wonder why. perhaps i am mildly defensive because i am sticking up for my beloved film against all these video people-- so far as ive seen im the only film purist in here. when its one against many it tends to get that way. but its not like i mind. i high high principles and i have no reason to back down for what i blieve in: which is that film is a superior meduim to video. i dont mind at all defending that-- but as you can see, i dont see any point in defending personal attack on my ego, or whetever you want to call it. i dont have an ego, i have a love and pride for film.

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The contest thing was really only a one time event (unfortuantly). But if you 'tone it down' i'll read your script, if it's great I'll pass it to my wife.

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i wouldnt have wanted to enter that contest anyway. its not sour grapes, but i dont need to go to a film camp because im already in one and i dont know if i can afford the time away. anyway, when i have somethign ready to pass out to people, maybe ill give it to you, if youll lok at it. id better get cracking though... i actually have an offer from an academy award wining screenwriter who said he'd read some of my work- so i need to hurry.

anyway, as i said earlier, you really dont need to give me lectures on social skills. i dont recall ever being rude to you, or every doing anything other than defending the medium of film. and if you felt otherwise, im sorry.

I'm going to turn this into a writing for characters lesson here:

What we have here is a unique character called Baloo. If you want to write about someone who sounds stuck up, but doesn't mean to, pattern your characters dialogue after what Baloo says.
Then we have those like Kyle, the young and restless. (not to mention relentless). If you want to write a character who is hot headed and funny at teh same time, pattern your persons character after Kyle.

All Baloo is saying, is he likes film, and doesn't like video. (I personally don't like cream filled doughnuts). What we need to do is find the median.

If you got the best project in th world and you really think it will go somewhere, I suggest you put it on film. It just looks better.
But if you are learning and know thta your movie may never leave the state (besides internet), shoot it on video.

They are both powerful tools and should be used as such.

Apology accepted (and thanks) I offer mine in return...


FYI --- It was never the message for me, it was the delivery.... that's the last I'll say about a dead horse.


Anyway....

The script competition was much more than a 'boot camp'. Getting access to a big time film agent is the real deal... in reality there was nothing standing in between any of the writers here getting "signed" but a great script. Honestly, I had no idea what the scripts were to be, and neither did my wife. The bottom line is, if someone would have blown her away, she would have signed them. What would be next in that case? Some very high profile meetings with big time producers, studios etc..... all of that is very real. And for all I know it could have happened. Again, wasn't the goal of the contest (learning was), but when you are presented that opportunity that is the way you deal with it. My wife's not gonna turn away a great writer. I told her to "sorta take it easy on the young dudes" not completely, just a little ... she said she'd rather treat the scripts as if they were being submitted for representation. Well, because that is the only reason she considers reading scripts. She was fully aware that it was a contest, but treated it as a real situation.... meaning she listened to the guys and talked to them as if they were someone she was dealing with on a professional level (i.e.. respect). Speaking to them for quite a while on the phone actually (she doesn't even give "me" that amount of time on the phone, seriously ).

But yeah, whenever you submit something to someone high up... it's "real" not "class"... Because, the next step if they love your work is many, many meetings trying to get you a job (in fact you are often sent around to studios to "pitch" it yourself, you in a room full of people wanting to be wowed by you, that's were the "likeability" thing comes into play. You honestly have better odds of getting these people behind you if they like you, think you're funny, smart, etc.). Which is why you are doing the right thing by waiting to submit something till it's ready (i.e. good), even to this guy on-line (me) that you don't really know. Always want to make the best first impression you can.... it's hard to get someone to read your scripts twice unless they already represent you.