This has always been a problem for me, and I'm tired of it enough to try and get it fixed.

Ever since I got final cut pro 3, every time I import footage from a camera, the audio and video are off from each other. The video's anywhere from about 3-30 frames off from the sound. Which means that I have to go and sync up everything, which is a real pain. Does anyone know why this happens and how I can fix it?

Thanks in advance

What system (computer, OS, camcorder, etc)?

Is the problem consistent? So, if you capture a 30 second clip the sound is off just as much as if you capture a 30 minute clip?

Here's some thing things to try first:
I'd check to see if you're SAM is enabled in prefs. Chances are it's checked and shouldn't be. Also, on some computers, you start to loose sync if you capture a clip longer than 10 minutes. Some systems have this problem and some don't. It could be the camera (locked audio or not?), or something in the logic board in the computer. Regardless, the easiest thing to do is if you capture the entire tape at the same time, break it into 10 minute segments with a few second handles.

Also, if you're capturing footage from a 24pA source (i.e. dvx100), there will be a 2-frame audio lead. This is normal and most decent nle's now automate the syncing of it (FCP4 does this).

So, those are the common problems with what you're describing.

Thanks for the reply, I have no idea what a SAM is...I went into preferences, and "sync adjust movies over 5 minutes" was checked. So I unchecked it.

I am importing footage from a DVX100, but I know about the 2 frame problem and that isn't it. The software does it with other cameras as well.

I'm on an iMac 800 MHz PowerPC G4 with OS 10.2.8, and most of my footage is coming from a DVX100 or a PD-170.

Also, the problem occurs on clips of any length.

I'll try importing some footage now, and I'll let you know if your advice works.

Thanks so much.

Joren--

I imported some footage last night, and the problem was still there. SAM wasn't checked, and the clip was 59 minutes long.

What is locked audio? You mentioned it earlier.

I'm lost on the situation, and I now know that the problem happens on more than one computer. When I imported the clip, it was on my brothers G5. Thanks for all your help so far.

i've had this problem in FCP3 when importing set as a non-controllable device, or importing any footage with time-code breaks. setting to a firewire controllable device and making sure to long sections with no time-code problems usually fixes it for me.

I ALWAYS have timecode breaks. Its a habit of mine.

and i dont know what a non-controllable device is

me too, the timecode breaks that is. what i do is capture sections at a time, avoiding the breaks. its a pain, but until i remember to pay attention during shooting i've gotta pay at capture time

non-controllable is in the capture settings tab of the log and capture window, in the first drop-down menu. it SHOULD be set to Firewire NTSC (as long as your camera is, in fact, controllable.)

and don't use Capture Now, always log the clip and then capture. but be careful, my FCP has a nasty habit of losing either the start or end time of the clip before i capture it (you need to check by ctrl+clicking the logged clip in the bin and checking the timing)

i don't think you technically should need to do all this, but its what made the problem go away for me.

what about a clip <10 min? 59 minutes is HUGE! I keep my clips to 3-5 minutes.

And if you have timecode breaks, how is it possible to capture the whole darn clip?

Joren--

3-5 minute clips isn't an option. I have hours and hours of footage to edit. Just so you know, I'm importing footage from weddings and high school marching band competitions. I can't break it up into little clips.

Oh...and I have it set in the preferences not to abort capture on timecode breaks, seing as I have them all the time.

titaniumdoughnut--

I checked, and it was set to Firewire NTSC...and I don't even know what logging a clip is...I've always just pressed capture now and then pressed play on the camera. I'll try importing some footage.

Thanks again for all the help guys.

editors won't sit around digitzing an hour of tape without breaks, that's just crazy and makes editing way harder than it needs to be.

find places to break up the scenes, and then put 5 second handles so you have overlap. if it's the same footage, there won't be any jumps.


if you guys are having timecode breaks, do you rewind or forward during filming? usually cameras, for example: record 2 seconds after you hit stop and then rewind one second so that there won't be any breaks.

another way to avoid that, and something that professional cameramen do, is to black your tapes before you use them. simply, you just hit record on VCR mode, and it will record black. (Final Cut also has a "black tape" option in the Edit to Tape menu too i think) by recording the black, you create one long continous signal that exists on the tape.

then if you are recording, and for some reason the footage doesn't overlap, instead of having a time code break, the black actually covers the gap, and so you end up with one continuous signal.

time code breaks are important when you're batch capturing, logging, insert editing back to tape, or trying to make an insert point to have another deck record off the original tape.



and getting the audio off by a few frames isn't as annoying as trying to sync audio from a DAT tape to the film transfers someone shot, especially student projects, since for some reason, they tend to forget the audio slates, or even better, forget the visual slates.

i only mention this because for those of you that want to be editors as a career, guess what you're going to be doing as an assistant editor over and over again because the editor really doesn't feel like sitting there doing it?

=P

RFranco. you know your stuff.

I'll definitely use some of your tips...but I still can't break up this footage into small clips. The camera was literally rolling for a whole tape.

But anyways, why do you guys feel that it is important to break up scenes when importing? You say it makes editing easier, and I'm not sure why.

Sorry if I have a trillion questions, but I'm completely self taught, so all these terms and ideas are new to me.

well for one, importing that much footage, as you have noticed, makes the audio drift.

also, when you're trying to scrub through clips to find certain footage, that video footage gets dumped into your RAM so you can skip back and forth quickly. having that much footage in one clip is just too much for your RAM to take in and handle.

like i said, even if the tape was running the whole time, you can separate a 60 minute tape into 5 minute chunks, and then set a five second overlap. then all you have to do is put them in a timeline one after the other, get rid of the five second overlap, and it will play EXACTLY as it does on the tape, except that your computer will have smaller clips to deal with, and so it won't take up so many resources.

FCP seems to handle 50 minute clips fine for me. no lag, no audio drift. i ONLY get the problem if i have breaks and i don't log it.

pyro, logging and capturing is a little complicated, so just read the manual on how to mark a clip and batch capture if you want to do that.

well, if you're having that many timecode breaks, that's your problem. Something's wrong with your camera. And if you set FCP to ignore it, of course you're gonna run into sync problems. Like I said before, some systems have sync issues, some don't. Actually, if you can capture a whole tape (without t/c breaks), I've got a great tip to 100% automatically log your tape into clips--it's almost magic.

And RFranco, I'm not sure where you got your information, but I'm 99.999% positive the length of clip captured has no bearing on RAM. You can work with a 6 hour dv clip if you want. Where did you hear that?
Also, it's not a good idea at all to black dv tapes. It causes much more problems than it potentially fixes. You'll actually increase your chance of timecode breaks.

ooohhh - what's this magic logging thing joren? sounds very interesting.

hmm, forums are running slow for me.

joren - i'm just going from experience on the RAM thing. my computer used to be really slow when you were trying to scrub through long clips, like it was trying to catch up, but scrubbed fine with smaller clips. then i bought some more ram for it cause i could afford it, and it's less of a problem, although if they're really long clips it still does it to a degree.

also what happened: if you put a long clip into the timeline, and didn't scrub through the clip before you hit play, as it went along the time line and got to it, it would start skipping. it'd skip before exporting to tape as well. it stopped doing it so much once I got more RAM for it.

now i was thinking maybe it was the audio on the clip, but we also use a lot of video-only clips, and it still did it. upgrading the RAM solved most of the problem.


Blacking the tapes is something I've been told to do for the last 3 1/2 years at school. And the only time I've had timecode breaks is when we're doing something for class and bought the tape in a store as we were shooting and didn't have time to black it.

What are the problems from blacking it? And how would you insert edit without blacking it?

Thanks.

Okay, I guess I should have specified don't black the tapes unless your camera has the ability to do insert edits, and that's how you shoot. Most camcorders don't do insert edits.

With the betasp and digibetas that I used to shoot with, you'd set the t/c to regen, which went off the timcode that was on the tape, and then regenerated it. With most DV cameras (that can't do inserts), they rewrite the timecode as they write sound and video. So, if at 2.00.00 (2 minutes) you start recording and stop a minute later (3.00.00) the camera would pick up on the time code at 2.00.00 and rewrite it as it records for a minute. In a perfect world, that would pose no problems with blacked tapes. However, consumer camcorders aren't that accurate and you can gain or loose frames. So the frame just past where you stopped your tape--which should be 3.00.01--could be 3.00.00 or 3.00.02 or even farther off. This is a timecode break. Now, I'm not saying it happens all the time. But it can and does happen. I personally 'fluff' my tapes. But I don't black them (because I have never, ever done an insert edit on a dv camcorder). For most (pro) formats it's a good idea. But not for DV.

Now for my automatic logging secret. I'm writing a FCP book, and for 29.95 you can learn all about it. Just kidding. It feels like everyone I know is coming out with help books for FCP, or Motion, or the BRAND NEW logic apps that were announced today. So here it is (and this is for FCP4. not sure if it'll work in earlier versions):

1. For this to work, you must set the date and time on your camcorder before you record. It doesn't matter if "date stamp" (or equivalent) is enabled, it's automatically embedded into the DV signal as part of the standard.

2. Log your whole darn clip, beginning to end. I suggest you still mark an in and out and "capture clip" rather than "capture now." For whatever reason, less errors occur that way.

3. Highlight the clip in the browser and go Mark>DV Start/Stop detect. This is where the magic happens. FCP will go through your clip and set markers wherever the time/date jumps (where you stopped recording and started again at least a second later). You can select multiple clips and do many at once. This may take a while because FCP has to search the entire clip.

4. Now you have one clip with a bunch of markers. Well, how do you get clips from that? Create a new bin, select all the markers (but not the clip), and drag the markers into your new bin. A subclip will be made for each shot. That's it!

From there, you can make each clip independent if you like, but most people don't know the difference between master, affiliate, sub, and independent clips so to most it won't matter anyway.

And, I'm a huge fan of the the 'view bin as large icon' setting. Not only is it easy to find clips, but I'll arrange the clips in the order I want--sort of story-boarding.

all the best,