I've finally decided to take up filmmaking and really devote my time to it. I think I'm going to be getting my own computer this Christmas and I contemplating getting a MAC. I'd really like to research as much as I can, so I can get the better deal, so here are my questions:

MAC or PC?
If Mac, iMac or g5?
If PC, what kind... Gateway?
Editing software? I want to start with something I can grasp right away. I don't think it would be a good idea to start off with Final Cut just yet.
Also, I'm looking to spend less than 3k.

Help would be very much appreciated.

Oh No! This will turn into a huge Mac vs PC thing! Ahhhhhhhh!



Anyway, I have edited video on a really good pc (dell, 700mhz, pIII, 512mb) and i have edited video on a really good mac (g4, 867mhz 256mb). So i can honestly say which to get without bias. I don't use mac because of some cult thing. I use it cause it works best for me.

"MAC or PC?"

Go MAC. Windows will give you no end of trouble. Mac's are designed to handle the really heavy graphics loads video editing puts on them.

"If Mac, iMac or g5?"

g5! g5! I always think you should get the BEST computer you can, it's going to be outdated in six months anyway. Mac's last for ever, most mac people seem to keep them for like eight years. So get the newest one there is and you'll have the longest compatability.

"If PC, what kind... Gateway?"

If you decide against mac for some reason, I'd say Sony Vaio.

"Editing software? I want to start with something I can grasp right away. I don't think it would be a good idea to start off with Final Cut just yet."

Ohhh, tricky. I'd really suggest you go with FCP. Really strongly. It rocks. And the learning curve is not that bad. I picked up most everything in about four months. I edited my first finished product in it after only two weeks. You'll still have iMove if you want to do basic stuff before you've mastered FCP of course. And there's FCP Express, for like $299

"Also, I'm looking to spend less than 3k."

Gotcha! Ok, let's see.

g5 $1700
FCPExpress $300

There's your cheapest setup. Leaves $1k left over! Now spend that on the real FCP instead of Express, or put it towards a killer camera, or a studio display (i love mine), or a better g5, or firewire drive. You will need an extra hard drive no matter how much you get to begin with. I got 80gb. it's almost full. And now I need another 160 or so!

Cheers, let us know what you get!

"...where wings take dream..."
- G. W. Bush

Get a firewire drive. A built in drive with 60 gigs sounds big...but with render files and the like, you're going to want more.

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I don't want FOP godammit, I'm a Dapper Dan Man.

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I'm going to say Mac just because of their extreme ease of use to set up and that firewire is built in.

I literally was editing on my Dual gig G4 with Avid Xpress within 5 minutes of getting the mac out of the box. Extremely simple. Plug power into CPU. Plug in monitor to CPU(one cable for everything?!?!) Plug in keyboard and mouse. Plug in DV camera. Viola. Instant editing system.

iMovie is free if you want to try that. Then maybe Final Cut Express. I'm an Avid guy so I would say Avid Xpress Pro all the way...BUT it is a much bigger investment. ($299 for a student)

Also I think that Final Cut Express is $99 with a new computer now.

Get the cheapest G5. (No real need for dual unless you are making your living on it - hard to justify doubling the price and using up your entire budget.)

-Chris
Studentfilms.com

[This message was edited by Studentfilms.com on July 22, 2003 at 11:20 AM.]

Don't buy software, download it for free off Kazaa, until u can get more money. For now spend all the money u can on a good editing set up, don't waste it on software.

Some people might get pissed cuz of this post or start slamming, but what student can honestly say they can afford software out of their own pocket? I can't and wouldn't expect many would.

Use your money wisely.. there is plenty of time to waste your money on software once your "better" off.

If you don't look I'll force you to _=_

I say go PC with Avid DV. The price performance ratio is much better with PC's. The Avid interface is the most used in the pro world, why not learn it? If you're not a tech person, just get a dell. You could probably get a great system for a grand. I'm at work right now (I should be working, but anyhow...) on a Dell with with XP pro that's on 24/7 and it never crashes. You could spend the extra money on 2 big screens and a production monitor.

Fantastic,

--
Clyde
www.partypooperfilms.com

The macintosh g5 does look pretty sweet, but I don't believe avid xpress or premiere are supported at this time. Sure you could use fcp, but for people who use these other platforms, do you all know when a g5 will have support for them? By the way, I've talked to some people about dual processors, and trust me, they aren't exactly "twice" as fast. Plus they told me unless your hosting a web site with alot of accesing to your computer, for example chris here at studentfilms (or if your a server which none of you are), then you should'nt need need dual xeons, or dual g5's.

Check out what i'm building for under $1200:
-pentium 4 2.8 ghz with HT technology overclockable to about 3.8 ghz ($250)
-MSI 875P neo2 FISR motherboard with outstanding overclockability and includes RAID, S-ata hard drive support, usb, firewire, and upgradeable to 4gb of ram.(all for $200)
-2 160 gb maxtor Ultra133 HDs, at $99 each on sale
-dvdrom/cd burner for $100
-microsoft natural keyboard $50
-dual channel ram 2 sticks (2x256mb) (faster than single 512mb, and dual channel is supported with the newer mainboards, and its easily overclockable) $150
-the best cooling fan and 2 case fans so I can OC without melting my sytem, very important ($70 total)
-misc hd cables and disc drive..$40
-3 year warranty on m-board+cpu $80
-windows xp pro student discount..$88
-case..$20 on sale

I already have a monitor, mouse, soundcard, but not a video card yet. I still have to do my research on that.

And support isn't a problem, all of the individual products have their own warranty and tech support, plus I know a little about computers in the first place. I'd highly suggest the video/workbook "Build your own PC (with windows xp and pentium 4) if your a newbie going into his or her first surgery

A computer like this would easily be about $1400, but Hp, sony, and who not else include very cheap mainboads, offer horrible expandability in some cases and would'nt include these top of the line products. Try amd also, it's alot cheaper than pentium, but do your research, and like I said, stay away from dual processors.

Here's an article that benchmarks video rendering times with pc's vs. macs. It's a few months old, but still relevant:

http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/2002/11_nov/reviews/cw_macvspciii.htm

Also, with the dual systems, it isn't so much the speed increase, but the multitasking that benefit. You can have multiple programs open, say avid dv and after effects and it won't bog down. even rendering in both programs at the same time. But they are expensive and probably not needed if its your first system

--
Clyde
www.partypooperfilms.com

Avid Xpress Pro will definatley work on a G5. Adobe Premiere has been dropped for the Mac platform.

The G5 in my opinion is one of the fastest computers out there...making the benchmark comparison way out of date. On real world applications the G5 was over twice as fast as a comparable PC.

BUT...those tests were run on a dual proc which is overkill for someone just starting with editing.

Dual Processors on Avid Xpress speed up rendering and real time performance over 50%. On my dual processor g4 I get around 4-5 streams of realtime DV before I need to render.

BUT...once again this is overkill for someone starting out in editing. I cannot endorse downloading editing software from Kazaa. There are reasonably priced educational version avaialable.

Just some thoughts.

-Chris
Studentfilms.com

Allright.
So I am off to film school & the next story of my life!

I will be buying a MAC in August. After doing over 50 projects on my PC, it is finally time to indulge myself into something I want to do the rest of my life.

Why are you wasting my time you might ask? Well i need some advice on the MAC.
As you well know, we have all wet ourselves over the announcement of the G5 in July. My next MAC purchase will be a G5, but which one is the question.
Now, it will either be the 1.6 or the dual 2 gig.
2x250 gig hardrives without a doubt.
But along with the processor speed, here is what I ask you.
For heavy editing and music composition work, how much should I invest in on the RAM and Video Card?

Apple Order Sheet

I am tempted to get at least 2 gigabytes of RAM and not uprade the video card to the 9800 Pro.

Well, if you were going to buy a MAC in August, to last you the next four years at film school and support your video contract work, what would you get while not overspending for what you will need in the next four years?

Please indulge me. I am about to go MAC... and you know what they say... once you go MAC...

um yeah... about the link... its the apple website's store where you can select the upgrades or specs to your g5...

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/72104/wo/4Y8745Qyjiab2QdeG191UEeUgVB/4.0.7.1.0.5.23.1.2.19.3.1.1.0?39,3

Those tests were pretty impressive, and informative. I didn't see much of a bias, which I tend to look for when it comes to P.C. vs. Mac.

Chris, I know that you can't support pirating software and I don't expect you to.


I am looking forward to seeing the g5 up against the new Dell workstations.

Oh yeah - does anyone know which software takes advantage of dual processors ?

For example , Chris mentioned that Avid Express takes full advantage of dual processors etc.. does FCP or PRemiere Pro do the same ?

If you don't look I'll force you to _=_

MonoD - I am not sure but I'd definately upgrade ram and look into a nice display...your video card seems find. I would also look into the APP, u'll need it incase anything mess's up on your comp!

If you don't look I'll force you to _=_

quote:

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If PC, what kind... Gateway?

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It really doesn't matter which brand as long as you stick to the WORKSTATION models.

I have a Web page where I recommend the IBM Intellistation workstation-class computers.

It's here:

http://www.jonesgroup.net/videocomputers.htm

PC MAGAZINE also did a review of the various brands of workstations:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,474019,00.asp

I can recommend any of the workstation models reviewed.

The decision to go Mac or PC is a personal decision.

The G5s are workstation-class computers, too.

Either Mac or PC works... it just depends on your preferences.

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

Chris, if you are refering to Apples own benchmarks for their g5: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/39/31405.html

Basically the benchmarks can be biased either way. However, if someones going to choose either platform its probably because of the operating system they prefer.

this is the geekiest thread on the site.

--
Clyde
www.partypooperfilms.com

quote:

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Originally posted by Studentfilms.com:
The G5 in my opinion is one of the fastest computers out there...making the benchmark comparison way out of date. On real world applications the G5 was over twice as fast as a comparable PC.
-Chris
Studentfilms.com

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That's not opinion... Thats fact.

"This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time"

oh fiddlesticks. fine, mac rules all, hows that huh? PC's suck bananas! yeah!

how's exactly is that "fact" if the benchmarks came from apple? other benchmarks coming from other places say otherwise.

oh and... PC's suck bananas!!!!!!!!!!!!!

--
Clyde
www.partypooperfilms.com

quote:

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this is the geekiest thread on the site.

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Yes I admit it...I am a geek.

For a rebuttle to the claims the G5 benchmarks were fudged (they weren't - Veritest oversaw them) go here.

-Chris
Studentfilms.com

p.s. - PCs don't suck bananas. I'm writing this on a PC right now. I just prefer macs for editing.

I always hear that PC's and Windows give you all sorts of trouble - but I just got a Pentium 4 2 gig, etc. and I've got Premier 6.5, and am going to get Pro soon, and I have NEVER had any trouble with it.

I have used Macs though, and I'd have to say that it can handle a pretty good load( (as long as you don't have too many websites open at once :P) All the Mac's I've used crash a lot if you do too much with them, but when you try to edit photos or something, it's like they calm down, and do whatever you ask.

I bought a PC because of the other applications it has (games and Microsoft Word), but if you go the way of the Apple, you won't regret it either.

I've never understood the Mac vs PC thing; BOTH are competent machines, and they both have their uses. Just whatever you do, MAKE SURE YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE PUTTING IN IT. I have some friends I know with parents that just bought factory computers, and they crash all the time and are slow as hell. Make sure that you control what goes into the case, and that you can manipulate all the programs correctly.

Do that, and I'd say you're fine with EITHER computer.

I know a few people that have both, PCs and Macs, running side by side

But you don't need to worry about that kind of set up just yet. But don't listen to ARGUMENTS of which computer is better - just get whatever you want; both will make you happy.

But I woulnd't try playing any games on a Mac :P

Hope this helps.

Sony TRV950

quote:

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Originally posted by LeeMarcotte:
All the Mac's I've used crash a lot if you do too much with them, but when you try to edit photos or something, it's like they calm down, and do whatever you ask.

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Were they running OS9? Because OSX NEVER crashes.

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I don't want FOP godammit, I'm a Dapper Dan Man.

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