first of all, i would like to try to say that this isnt SPAM. if this is against the rules, then i apologize. however, understand that i am NOT selling a product here - i simply want to know what you think of a business idea i have.

to make the background really short, i am the creator and teacher of one of the country's best high school video production classes. we've gotten international recognition for being one of the best high school film programs in the nation. 100% of the curriculum was written by me - no textbooks, no preexisting materials. every text, assignment, handout, lesson, example video - it's all original content.

anyway, after 2 years teaching it, i'm going off to pursue my own filmmaking career and whatnot. however, since the content is all original, i am thinking of adapting it to a website as training videos and downloadable text and handouts to go with them. it would be specifically directed towards teenagers and student filmmakers who want to learn something new about film without having to pay a lot.

the idea is that all the content would be online, and instead of paying some ridiculous price that most training videos charge, you would pay like $20 a month for complete access to all content. there would be many training videos and then text resources to go along with them.

i'm thinking about this as a possible business idea, but i don't know if there's really a lot of people who'd actually be interested. i would appreciate anyone's feedback - and please let me know also if you would or would not be interested in a service such as this.

thanks!

the most important thing is to be legit, like this site. that measn not doing it for a profit. u can t be making money off of ppl wont trust you an djust see u as an opourtunist/profiteer. its ok to make money, but as far as im concerned with film, ull have alot more respect if u show a passion and care to simply get ur stuff out there and help people like us. is it possible to provide all of this stuff for free on a website? i know chris runs this website without much of if any profit. he just gets money to pay to keep the website up for ppl to watch fims and use forums, thats free, he gets the money from ppl who get their films put up, and he digitizes them himself. this is the best and cheapest legit place on the net ive found to put my films on, as have many other ppl who keep coming back. therefore this site is the best example of believing in art, and it being somethign that cant be bought or sold, and not something u would want to buy or sell, even if u could. thats my opinion on the matter.

thanks for the feedback. i understand that people like things that are free, but i do disagree that it needs to be free for it to appear a good cause.

believe me when i say that i am such a believer in this content. i've been working for a stipend that isn't even enough to cover half my rent in order to continue teaching this class at the high school. california schools are not doing too well, and they told me that if i didn't stay behind and continue teaching this class, the class would end, because they could not afford to continue teaching it. i simply could not let this class go after all i had put into it. so believe me when i say that i am totally honest about this project, even though i want to do it for a cost.

the thing i didn't mention in the first post was that i started this class when i was a junior in high school. i was young and talented, and it was a great opportunity. but my goal is still to find a place for myself somewhere in the film industry, and i simply cannot do that without money. i'm 18, jobless aside from teaching this one class for basically pennies, and thought this would be a good opportunity. i'm thinking of starting this business for profit, but with the most idealistic intentions of helping others like myself learn filmmaking on their own without having to invest a lot and take lots of expensive classes and everything.

the other part i might not have mentioned was that the other half of this site isnt a pay site at all - but kind of a community for young filmmakers to connect and bounce ideas around and whatnot. i did not mention that because that's in essence what studentfilms is, and i don't want to cause any competition issues or get anyone upset.

so yes, if i could make it free, i would. but i must be honest and say i am doing this for money. i simply cannot get by without income of some sort or another, and i figured this would be a better way to earn money AND help other people rather than getting some BS 9-5 job to support myself and fund a film.

oh, and if you have any ideas of how i could have this site be free while helping me earn something, i'm more than willing to listen

i was thinking of it being supported by advertising or something, but that can get annoying if it's too obvious, and doesn't pay too well...

but yes, i dont mean to argue with you... i just need some help. if i can't do this, i need to do SOMETHING... so i'm all ears for suggestions.

first of all getting a website at a geocities or something would help slash costs, i have a website and i dont pay anything for it, most people do. it might not be as good as having something like "www.studentfilms.com" but it will cut costs. the main problem you will have is convincing people that it is worth paying money for what you have when so much more stuff is free. there is tons of information on this site, and links to others, people to ask for advice etc... and I believe that going down to the video store and rent El Mariachi for 75 cents and watching the audio commentary and 10 minute film school is better than anything else that can be taught (in fact i beleive that film cannot be "taught" in the essence that its worth having in public education). unfortunatelly most of the people who would be attracted to what u plan to do are attracted to it because they dont have the money to go to university/college/or film school, but also cant really afford to spend money on what u propose. i just dont think that the type of people who come to this site (IMO) will spend money to be taught what is already out there for free. and that is ideas and advice. people would rather listen to a robert rodriguez than just another guy theyve never heard of. in fact, most people who teach film at a post secondary level do it cause they didnt make it or couldnt hack it in the industry, and they do it mostly for the money, and thats why its not worth the money to get taught by these kinds of people (the kind of people i for the most part consider my teachers to be). alot of (if not all) people are in the film "business" to make money, and thats why site slike this have started, because they dont do anything to further themselves or their films or their audiences, they dont challenge anything. they play it safe with comic book adaptations, bio pics, and tv/movie remakes because ithey are more likely to make $$$. but that doesnt make their work important. its stupified and simplified and targeted at the largest audience group and mass marketed to the public. its at the point where we as ana audience need to actually go looking and searching for a good film (something film critics no longer do) and has driven some, many from this site to make our own films becuase we feel we can do it better, and we can, and we have. and we put our films on this site because it is more important to educate other people and express ourselves and share rather than make money. for many of us (including me) that means working a 9-5 job that we hate, but im not going to complain about because i have the power to make films my way.
hopefully other people will have more usefull suggestions to respond to this thread and ur idea. all the same, i wish you the best of luck.

insomniac,
what you have to understand, is hill had this thing called opinion.

o·pin·ion Audio pronunciation of "opinion" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-pnyn)
n.

1. A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof: “The world is not run by thought, nor by imagination, but by opinion” (Elizabeth Drew).
2. A judgment based on special knowledge and given by an expert: a medical opinion.
3. A judgment or estimation of the merit of a person or thing: has a low opinion of braggarts.
4. The prevailing view: public opinion.
5. Law. A formal statement by a court or other adjudicative body of the legal reasons and principles for the conclusions of the court.


blah.blah.blah.
i dont like his OPINION. but you have to remember that not everyone will like what you are doing, or trying to accomplish.

but thats fine, because they have no life anyways :-P
it might be for valid reasons (n/a in the situation) or it might be out of jealousy....

anyways, i think your idea is awesome...
and since i know you arent an ass hole thats "in it for the money" i think you'll go far with it



def. keep us posted, and let us know when things are going down.

Just another opinion - I think it's a good idea in principle, but there's a hitch.

You're doing it to make money (because everyone needs money to live), but the very people you're going to try to target "may" be as broke as you.

I'm not sure what the solution to that is and I don't mean to discourage you from following through. If you're really good at what you do, perhaps you can go to the local school system in your area and offer a "Summer Film School" for students. If you cut the school system in on the money (for rent/overhead), they may let you use one of their classrooms/facilities.

That way, the parents are paying for the service and you can offer web materials to the class members as support.

Just a thought. Good luck!

...and I question just how effective you're resources are compared to the heaps and heaps of free resources on the web for filmmaking? You're stuff may be just that incredible. But you're trying to adapt your materials for a completely different format. In a classroom setting, you could interact with your students, share resources, and offer direct feedback. You also had a lot more structure in the sense that it's a class at school, at a designated time, with presumably mandatory attendance, and some sort of grading system.

The more structure you create, and the more direct feedback you can provide over the Internet could be what separates you from all the other (free) resources on the web.

my .02 best luck

i think its a terrible idea.

why does everyone want to bank on film.

you said you wanted to go off and create a film carear. go do it.

forget training videos...
warhol and polonski dident have training videos. who needs em

who cares of warhol and polanski used training videos? that doesn't mean nobody needs them.

i give up, ok? i gave up on the idea. i don't even care about that anymore. the thing thats bugging me now is why so many people seem to be against education. against film school, against training videos, against anything except watching movies and filming. i agree that that's one of the best ways to learn, but thats not the only way, and may not be the best. going out and filming is best, but it's still good to learn from those who have experience, because you learn much much faster that way. that's why college EXISTS, because it is QUICKER and MORE EFFICIENT to learn from those who know rather than to learn it all from scratch yourself.

Tanner, i promise you with absolute sincerity that if it were as easy as "creating a film career" then i would go do it. but it's not. when you have to worry about paying rent and putting food on the table, it isn't a matter of just "doing it." i also happen to have been raised in one of the most expensive areas in the nation, and it's difficult to leave because every film contact i've ever had is from this area. a full-time job, full 40 hours a week, does NOT PAY RENT IN SANTA CRUZ. not if you're 18. it's not like i can get a great job. not like there even ARE any here.

look, i see what some of you guys are saying. its a bad idea, thats fine, but you don't need to chew me out for bringing it up, and you definitely don't need to give me some bull**** about how "so-and-so director didn't need that." face it! some people need education! half of the freaking posts on Studentfilms are someone asking a question and someone else helping them out. my goal wasnt to rip people off and earn a quick buck, my goal was to be able to live and jumpstart my film career while helping others learn aspects of film they haven't been able to. that's all. nothing dishonorable, nothing bad, just a simple idea.

so i admit that the idea is bad. not because i think that it's actually a bad way to learn, but because i now realize (and had a hunch) that most of the filmmakers i'd be marketing this towards are just as stubborn and elitest as many people on these boards, and that they'd never subject themselves to "education" even if they really needed it.

i am just speaking for myself, a teacher of film, yet completely self-taught. just an educatoinal idea. and dont you dare try to deny the benefits of education. i've seen so many people in the class i teach rise from never making a film before to getting real professional work because they now have a way to learn it. so i apologize for asking a question and expecting a kind response. so much for bringing up original ideas around you guys, hoping for advice.

I personally think it's a terrible idea. You're 18, and you claim to have been teaching a high school production class for 2 years? The numbers don't add up.

What experience do you have that you boast of developing 'one of the best high school film programs in the nation'? Do any schools besides yours use this curriculum?

Considering you haven't presented any decent credentials, I can't see why anyone would pay $20 a month for access to site full of (probably superficial and cliche) information which could be scraped up elsewhere.

number one.
freedom of speech.
i voiced an opinion. it was not what you wanted to hear, so you come back punching.

two.
Im sorry it did not agree with your so called "teaching principals." you say people are totally against classes? against teaching? Do you know me? you just judged me. so judge.

number three. "who cares of warhol and polanski used training videos? that doesn't mean nobody needs them."

ok so once again you attack my freedom of speech by saying this bull crap. well i care. i care that they have a hudge effect on the art world. i use the word art becuase they were doing things with film before you and i were even born. independently. and for reasons.

"insomiac" i dont get it. your give up atitude. i was just speaking one persons opinon. who has went through the system. who has had training, and classes. who has experience. who is creating a portfolio.

four.
"that's why college EXISTS, because it is QUICKER and MORE EFFICIENT to learn from those who know rather than to learn it all from scratch yourself."

i like the bold here. again. dramatic.

five.
"Tanner, i promise you with absolute sincerity that if it were as easy as "creating a film career" then i would go do it."

yes, you can, pick up a camera. SHOOT. start a portfolio. do whatever you want. just do it. And please, dont use my name like you know me.

number six.
you live in santa cruz! im jelous, do not whine about where you live. you have no idea what its like living in michigan. you ever watch a film called roger and me? you think thats fake. you know the murder rates here? the crime rates? the unemployment? once again, i hate to say it, your prejudgeing me.

the list just keeps going...

seven.
"but you don't need to chew me out for bringing it up, and you definitely don't need to give me some bull**** about how "so-and-so director didn't need that." "

please calm down, i was just making a statement of people usuing there money officeintly instead of wasting it on "how to do lessons." seriously, whats so hard in going and spending that twenty dollars on a roll of film. or some tapes. or even, dare i say it, cigarettes!

im still thinking about santa cruz. that still makes me laugh.

eight!
"half of the freaking posts on Studentfilms are someone asking a question and someone else helping them out."

this is my favorite one, yes, thats what forums are for. thats what Student films is about, helping people out, sharing knowledge. dare i say it, knowledge for free!

nine.
"my goal was to be able to live and jumpstart my film career while helping others learn aspects of film they haven't been able to. that's all. nothing dishonorable, nothing bad, just a simple idea."

you live in SANTA CRUZ. get a job. your in california. you were born with cinema in your freaking blood. get a job in the system. or start your own thing, your choice, just do it and dont listen to what i say.

im going to keep going on though...

ten!
"i'd be marketing this towards are just as stubborn and elitest as many people on these boards, and that they'd never subject themselves to "education" even if they really needed it."

santa cruz punk. to call nearly everyone on these boards those things. wow.
i hope to god your "teacher" butt aint gunna post on these stubborn boards anymore right?

eleven... the climax.
"i am just speaking for myself, a teacher of film, yet completely self-taught. just an educatoinal idea. and dont you dare try to deny the benefits of education. i've seen so many people in the class i teach rise from never making a film before to getting real professional work because they now have a way to learn it. "


ok i lied, this one is my favorite. self taught. isnt that the whole point of my argument? and yes, this is an argument. self taught! exactly. pick up a camera. learn.

i wasent dareing to deny school benefits. ive been through the system, obviously longer than you. your eighteen kid. wake up.

you say you have these students and friends that have made it, wouldent they want to offer you a job? dont you have those things called... "contacts"?

number twelve. the end.
"so much for bringing up original ideas around you guys"

could have been a bit more dramatic, but you did alright kid. maybe if you had some rest, you could write something better.

you dont even know me.

great, so now you guys are thinking i'm a liar?

Evan, i understand what you're saying, but you actually answered your own question in your post.

"What experience do you have that you boast of developing 'one of the best high school film programs in the nation'?"

well... here's your answer.

"You're 18, and you claim to have been teaching a high school production class for 2 years? The numbers don't add up."

damn right they don't add up. i was good. i've been filming full-length scripted films since elementary school. in high school, i made my rounds at various film festivals. one of the producers of the Sopranos wanted to fund a film of mine. i had film schools that i didn't even apply to giving me automatic admission if i would make films in their department.

i don't mean to sound so egotistical right now, but i'm just trying to defend myself, as i keep getting shot down here these days.

when i was 16, 2 friends of mine (both with similar backgrounds as myself) and i decided to start SVHS Video Productions. you're right, we DON'T have teaching credentials. but SVHS didn't care, and neither did the NEA. hell, the NEA gave us money for it. why? because our work spoke. i had experience working with professionals and in film festivals. brian had a union writing credit to his record. drew had one of films on sale in video stores on the east coast. the 3 of us made up a young, but credible, team - especially if you consider the fact that the average high school video productions teacher (for high schools lucky enough to HAVE such a program) is someone who graduated from film school and then just went into teaching.

so yes, i'm sorry to be an ass or egotistical. but trust me, we've been doubted the entire trip. it gets a little old to defend ourselves. people shoot us down. they say we're too young, they say we're uncredentialed, they ask why we are credentialed. well, that's why i like to let the class speak for itself. we ARE the top in the nation. the NEA invited me to speak in Washington, D.C. last year where they also presented me with the information about the ranking of our class. we've been in the newspapers and on TV. we have a few students in our class who've been successful - as in some have actually gone from knowing nothing, to getting professional, paid work strictly from what they've learned in our class.

i'll tell you why i'm here now. drew went off to UCLA. brian went off to USC. (both admissions were largely given because of their experience with this VP class.) i was invited to various film schools, but i was then notified that SVHS did not have the money to hire another teacher, and that our class (including its reputation, resources, and students that relied on it) would simply disappear unless someone stayed behind to teach it. so i did. that's why i'm here. i gave up some good opportunities, both education-wise and in terms of paid film projects i could've done, to keep this class going for another year while SVHS found a way to keep it alive. obviously because they could not pay another teacher, they couldn't pay me, either. i've been stipended by the parent club, because they know that this class is good for their students. i earn enough from that stipend in the entire year to pay for 2 months of living in santa cruz. it's been tough for me to keep this class going alone and with no money, much less for me to get back into filmmaking full-time.

my idea in this original topic about training videos was nothing more than an idea for me to attempt to continue teaching what i've PROVEN to be succcessul, and in order to help me get back off the ground. that's it. the VP class has been secured for after this year, so i'm just trying to find ways to pay my rent and make films. i just figured that continuing to teach would be an honorable, useful, and yes, profitable, idea. i'm sorry if this offends you guys. as i said, i've dropped the idea. you guys have made it clear to me that it is not wanted.

so there's my explanation. if you want more details, or want to see the NEA transcripts or a QuickTime of the news, or copies of emails from the kids in other countries who follow along with our online curriculum, then i'm more than happy to supply you with this.

i'm sorry again for all the *******-ish-ness in this post... but i keep getting doubted more and more and more. with each post, i'm become less and less qualified to speak. so... maybe this sheds some light on it. maybe you'll think i'm somewhat credible. maybe not. agree to disagree. i gave you guys what you wanted, i admitted defeat, said it was a bad idea, and explained my credentials.

never called you names pal. not once did i say you were a liar. or stubburn.

Tanner, i wasn't judging you. the things about stubbornness and about anti-education was not directed towards you, i said it because i sense a lot of that on these boards.

and about being self-taught, i realize that your argument. and thats why i refute it. because, while i'm self-taught, if i had someone who know something about film by my side while i was learning it, i wouldve learned it a hell of a lot faster.

my "liar" post was referring to Evan not believing me when i said our class was successful. not you.

alright, i apologize for anything offensive i have said. if i judged you, insulted you, or offended you, i apologize, i'm arguing too much, i'm being too defensive. i don't mean it, i just didn't see why it was so difficult to get constructive responses. but no matter. i'm sorry. and Tanner, the film you have on your site is really very good. so... sorry to anyone. i just want to make films and collaborate, and realize that us arguing on here is doing the opposite of that. so i'm going to leave these posts here for a short while to see if anyone has anything else to say, and them i'm just going to erase all my posts on here i think. because my ranting was ridiculous and i am sorry.

hey man, i rant and rave all the time and say stupid ****, i mean, i am the gguy who proposed an X-rated film without nudity, and has a film on here about what happens to the world after America takes over Canada. Less than a quarter of my post on here are rational in the least, and this is #1364 for me. Even Kyle makes more sense than me You shouldn't give up on ur plan, of course we are going to be critical and hard to convince, we're very quite cynical and bitte rpeople, or maybe thats just me, i dunno. but i dont really have much hope for the good prevailing over evil, and good intentions leading to good results (just look at politics and how they go array). It isn't easy to come on here and make a post and a proposition lie you did, people are skepticle of everything short of an actual film they are looking at, and even then, still skepticle. arguign and fighting the fight, good or bad is what forces u to make a concession on what you believe and where ur heading. we are mainly against education because it usually corresponds to money. look at me for example, im taught by the very people who are responsible for the billion dollar film businees in Canada and B.C. Do you think its easy to argue that what theyve done is wrong? That in creating an industry theyve sacrificed and killed films and good filmmakers who deal with real issues and ideas for blood money coming form the US and films like Fantastic Four and Electra. All the films made in Canada form the US are **** cause theyre only here for tax breaks and cheaper labour, we are the *****s in thsi case. But its me against everyone here, they dont want me telling our govt its a waste to invest in the film industry, that it hurts our country, soun d pretty far out and off, and i take alot of heat for it. but if i believe it, i gotta back it up to my death, cause all i got is my word and self respect, and if i break em waht have i got? youve gotta believe in something, and helping other filmmakers doesnt sound like a bad thing to belive in, no matter how u intend to help them. I just hope you can get something positive ut of something on this site, most likely the threeads that have yet to be contaminated by my presence yet. good luck.

just spoke my opinion. thats all. sorry guys, like i said, you dont have to listen to me.