I blame the media for giving us falso information as well as trying to vindicate our reasons for going to Iraq. The truth is that more than 2/3rds of the middle east were happy to see Saddam overthrown but were not happy to see half of their country blown to peices as well as see the 100 thousand innocent people go with it. We have no buisness being over there, Our main objective was to bring justice to Osama Bin Laden and get out. O am well aware that their are terrorist cells but that is no need to put our troops in danger by having them fight a war that ultimately we can never win. Listen, when we were in vietnam, we had American terrorists called the "weathered underground." They blew up buildings and dodged the cia for many years until finaly giving themselves up. What Im trying to say is, once we get rid of one cell their is going to be 20 more that pop up. Lets kill the son of a ***** that did this to us and consult the UN to help with the rest (IRAN< KOREA). My friends tell me all the time in their letters from over sea that they hate being their and the people hate them to. They admit to having to kill innocent people just because their scared to death that they might kill them first. I quote a sergant of the marines; "Shoot anything that moves boy's." Im sorry but thats the wrong thing to do in any situation. I hate Bush for thinking with his walet instead of his country, as well as the meddia on both ends of the spectrum for advocating biased hate crimes. PROPAGANDA HAS TAKEN OVER OUR TV SCREENS... DoNT LET THEM GET IN YOUR MINDS!!! WE HAVE TO TAKE THE POWER BACK!!! -Rage Against The Machine

you might get flamed - but i'll stand with you

I think you're a moron so I feel bad about agreeing with you. The only reason I am opposed to the war is because we went in on false pretenses. I never believed in weapons of mass destruction, because come on, Sadam never had the means to take over the world even if he did have a small stockpile of nukes.
When a country sends its soldiers off to die, the country better tell them the truth about why they're being sent. I think in the long run the US's invasion of Iraq will help the Iraqi people (for historical examples of US invaded countries that became great look at Germany and Japan). I just don't like that a group of people signed on to the army, willingly risking their lives for something that was untrue.
Had the US government said "Let's go in, kill Sadam and bring freedom to Iraq," I would have supported the war, in the same way that I think the Vietnam war was just.

That 100,000 number you mentioned has been debunked. It's just not true. The group that did it, Lancet, was vocally anti-sanctions and publicly embarassed when their figure of 500,000 children dead a year due to sanctions was proven to be totally false. They based this number on 800 interviews they did.

Whether or not the war was right or wrong, don't rely on idiotic and patently false numbers.

Thank you very much titaniumdoughnut!!!

Hahahaha.... You make me laugh, I have given you cold hard facts and yet you blast me with the same thing everyone else says about the war? Jesus, do your research for gods sake, and when i say research I mean look somewhere else then Fox and CNN. On top of the fact that I do have many friends over seas telling me whats going on and what their orders usually are, I find it very hard for you to dismiss my explanation for the war. Im glad to hear that you oppose it as well but I DO NOT need you to feel bad about agreeing with me. With all do respect, we have no right liberating a country and pushing democracy on their people while at the same time people in our country outsources their jobs. As for your comments about Vietnam... Well explain that to the vet's and POW's that survived. You fool, so many people died in that senseless war and at what cost? Thats why they were comparing this war to Vietnam. Jesus, think man!!!!

Digitalbath, I agree with you. We need to get Osama and then join forces with the UN (like we should have done at the beginning). Iraq had no connection to Al Qaeda, even Donald Rumsfeld admitted that there was no hard evidence of that. We have 50 more months of this administration's bs. Prepare yourself.

By and large I agree with you, but while the media deserves some blame because the basis of a democracy is free media. I blame the american people more. When we went to war in Iraq barely anyone cared why, the people didn't care and burried their heads in the sand. If the recent election has proved anything it is that americans are by and large uninformed. It is sad, but they have only themselves to blame.


Cammo

um... I don't know what Sergeant told his troops to shoot anything that moves, because I have two relatives over there, and that's not the orders they have. Secondly, it is extremely hard to know all the facts. Where do you get this research from? How do you know that those people aren't biased? It's hard, dude. and third, the UN sucks. They've proven that themselves. They just keep giving warnings to these people and they don't do anything. they are a bunch of fat politicians sitting on their asses debating.

do you know why terrorists cells keep springing up? Because the UN doesn't punish the countries that harbor them!

We can argue about this all day but what it comes down to is the fact they we have elected a moron as our president and we just have to deal with it. I just pray that he won't lead us to WW3 (Iran/Korea).

You know it's pretty funny that everyone keeps calling Bush a moron and stupid. Kind of reminds me of Reagan. Everyone said he was stupid, that he should go back to acting, because that was all he was doing as president. But Reagan did a lot, more than most presidents.
So please, everyone, lets stop jumping on the band wagon to call Bush a stupid moron, because there is no evidence that he is. Sure he doesn't speak well in public, but that doesn't make him a moron.

Yeah, Reagan did do a lot. He sent the U.S deeper into debt by increasing defence spending by 35% and in 1981 sent Donald Rumsfeld to Iraq and sold Saddam Hussein hellicopters and chemicals. Oh yeah, he also supported the Mojahedin in Afghanistant that eventually evolved into the Taliban. Yes. Reagan did do a lot. As for Bush, we can't refute his analytical intelligence (he did have decent SAT scores), but he is an idiot for allowing his "faith" and lack of post-conventional morality to blind him from making logical decisions.

Dude, you are totally right about Reagan. But but who really sucks is FDR. I mean he supported China from being taken over by Japan which let the nationalist and the socialist factions to regain control and then fight each other and then let Mao come to power and let him use his five year plans which made millions of people starve to death. He also supported the USSR from being taken over by the Nazis and as a direct result of this we fought in korea and vietnam. I really hate that FDR guy. Oh yea Bush is a Nazi because Barbara Streisand told me so.

Since no one has said the actual word yet, I feel that I must, "Reaganomics."
[sarcasm]You know I guess it's not that bad actually that my woman has to work too to support our family. That'll teach the lazy ***** to think she can just ride my coat tails.[/sarcasm]

-Elliott

This goes to Matthew Fusters comment about Bush not being a moron. Nobody is picking on Bush because he's not a moron we're calling him a moron because of the things he says and the many many times he has given the camera the dumbfounded looks. If you haven't heard the many dumb things this man has said then you must be living under a rock. I don't feel the need to quote Bush's top 50 dumb qoutes on this forum. Hey have you ever wondered why Bush is the only president in history to avoid being on TV and interviews even during election time he avoided going on tv appearances maybe he's afraid to make a fool of himself. So i'm not calling him a moron for nothing just listen and see his actions. --that's all im saying.

Beautiful, Schneller.

I'm not going to argue the point about Reagan supporting the mujahadin in afghanistan, simply because if tresspasser is going to ignore the effects of the soviet union in the middle east, then there's no reason to try to reason with him.

But I'm sick of politics. Now I just get to sit back and watch the democratic party do their best to make sure they never win another election. anybody seen www.****thesouth.com ? They want to make Howard Dean head of the DNC. This is gonne be HILARIOUS.

I've done my research and I've made an informed decision about Reagan, Clinton, and Bush. I know that the majority of republicans and democrats who made their voting decision based off of group think, but don't make the generalization that I can't be reasoned with.

Guys, any president that you put in, you have to remember:
He's damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't.

What if he hadn't attacked Iraq? The sanctions would be lifted and Saddam would get weapons.

Whoever made the UN comment about them all being fat lazy (insert favorite curse word here) is the greatest person in the world. Screw the UN. Screw the whole world. Everyone is in everything for self gain. You think John Kerry actually cared what you think? No. Do I think Bush actually cared what I thought? No.

Screw politicians. Get your heads on guys. No president in 2004 would be doing any better. Whether it were JK, HD, or any other screwball that had the audacity and stupidity to take on the name of a politician.

Many believe FDR was our best president. But as mentioned before, there was the whole Mid East thing he did. Damned if he did and damned if he didn't.


John Kerry lost because no could understand him. No one knew what he was about. George Bush won because people knew his policies.
They may not have completely agreed with him, but they knew where he stood.

You guys need to stop sitting here on the forums and go out there and do something about the things you are complaining about. you'll notice I've been scarce around these forums lately and that's for several reasons.
1.work
2. working on a movie
3. I'M OUT THERE SPEAKING OUT AGAINST THE POLICIES THAT I HATE ABOUT OUR POLITICIANS!

Will we be heard immediately, no. But overtime, if we get supporters rallied around us, we will be heard. we SHALL be heard.

Screw the politicians we have now. Do what you can. I voted Bush because I agreed with MOST of his policies. At the same time, I am speaking out against the ones I'm against.

Yes, the media is lying to you. Whether you watch FOX or any other station. You are always getting a slanted point of view. That's why witnesses are a requirement in the court of law. Everyone has a different POV and will bring a new situation to the table.

And greenday, Iran and N Korea are inevitable. If JK were elected they would have to be dealt with under him as well. WW3 is on its way whether a republican or democrat gets in to office.
There is a great evil rising in the world. And its going to take a president with the guts to take it on, head first. We can't sit back and talk like JK wanted to do. ACTION is the answer. Actions speak louder then words!
The UN won't do crap! They will just talk!
Like I said, I don't agree entirely with Bush, but he is taking action. Something is being done about the current state of our world.

And every action has a reaction. Negative and positive. As of now, the action taken against Iraq is having negative reactions. But eventually, the actions taken in the negative tone will turn positive.

We can't sit back and isolate ourselves here in America. That's how Germany became such a huge problem. If you recall, we isolated ourselves from the war. But in the end, we had to take 'em on.

Now we have to take on this new threat. I am glad we didn't wait like we did in WW2. We are taking action BEFORE it gets too bad.

If you got a leaky faucet, are you going to wait till it breaks? NO! Your going to fix it before it gets worse.

Right now, I believe we are fixing the middle east. It may not look like it now, but to fix a car engine, don't you have to take it apart and then put it back together? Things are going to get messy, but by the end, everything will be better then it was.

"The best is yet to come."

quote:

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Originally posted by Forsakenproductions:
Things are going to get messy, but by the end, everything will be better then it was.

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Yeah, just like in Vietnam.

And the UN will "do crap" hell, they played a huge part in Sierra Leone.