Hey guys,

I haven't posted anything here for a longtime. I've recently been look at the major film schools on the net and I thought about going to film school at point. But tuition is rising higher and higher each year passes by. I almost thought about attendng at the Savannah College of Art and Design. But I pulled out due to the fact the tuition is around 35 grand for one year and it's a four-year college. It's tough to get into some film schools, I've heard that the North Carolina School of the Arts has a good film program but is extremely hard to get in. Then I read Robert Rodriguez's 10-mintue film school. It's a interesting article and made more sense than going to film school and spending over 20-30 grand. I'm actually think about doing the Robert Rodriguez route. What do you guys think?

Hell, I'll be the first to say go for it, but, ultimately it's up to you. It's mostly a matter of how confident you are about making it into the industry at all. The one thing film school gives you, besides some techniques and technical knowledge that you could find anywhere else, is a false sense of security. The industry is a gamble school or no, you're no more guaranteed to work on a movie if you go to school or you don't. If you want to play it safe, go. Yet, good luck all the same.

elliott...

If you go the Rodriguez way, you better be prepared to literally BREAK into the industry. If you invested in film school, your for sure to land a job in the industry, but don't expect anything higher than to be: the guy in the corner who puts gaffer's tape on everything before the shoot. Or in Rodriguez's words, "the big time position of the guy who brings the director his coffee,". I personally say, hell with film school. Unless of course you can either afford it or you get a scholarship or some crap like that. Which doesn't normally happen. 10 minutes is all you need.

I don't think the Robert Rodrigez method is a great choice to breaking into the film industry... at least not for everyone. Besides, there are pros and cons to gong to film school and going with the Rodrigez method.

The main thing to understand is that Rodrigez method involves some risk. Film school is financially burdensome and also tough to get into. But I think it's different for everyone... if you're just out to make movies and you're confident in yourself, then go with Robert Rodrigez method. If you're out to gain knowledge of film production and feel you want practie inside a school setting, and have access to equipment and your peers, then film school is a good choice.... but get what you need from film school and leave... I wouldn't get too hung up on getting a degree. And even more importantly, I think film schools have to be done with internships outside the school in order to gain real world knowledge... and the best schools where the teachers are working
professionals and not old failed filmmakers.

the north carolina school is worth a try...good school and not toooo hard to get in imho.

but for your question: Film school..definitely. Dont go the rodriguez way unless you are already damn good

There is only one negative point about filmschool and that is the cost of it.

on the other side, you will work for 4 years with highly talented people and you can crew EVERY WEEKEND on a film that is shot either digital, 16mm, super16mm or 35mm. THAT is great experience. You got teachers who WILL help you advance as a filmmaker IF you are open minded about listening to people who may have failed in the business but are great professors nonetheless (yes, most teachers who failed are actually better teachers than the ones who are out there...it really doesnt matter how successful you are to teach us what we need to know about filmmaking).

go for film school and you will also have the best time of your life with parties, new friends and cute girls

quote:

Originally posted by Hoeks:
Dont go the rodriguez way unless you are already damn good

Robert Rodriguez isn't damn good though. . . Shark Boy and Lava Girl, anyone?

This post is a generalized post:

“DO NOT” go to film school if you plan on working as a 1st Assistant Director, 2nd assistant Director, anywhere on the camera crew or any crew for that matter. Let me say this; you can make some really good money working on film crews, example being is I worked as a P.A. and I also worked in the art department for the T.V. show "Everwood". The 1st AD was getting paid around $1,000 bucks a day. And the head of the Art Department was making $45 bucks an hour (different pay scales) The 1st AD started out as a P.A. back in the day. So you need to work yourself up the ladder.

First you start as an intern and then you work your way up, and “you will” work your way up, it just takes time. Don't waste your time at film school if that's the route your going. There are bogus film schools out there. That’s why you need to research each one you are interested in; i.e. who came out of that school, how many are successful, is it a good program, who are the teachers (they need to be working professionals) backing up what KURT WAGNER said.

Sure you can try Rodriguez route, but think how many thousand upon thousands of filmmakers are trying that. Compare his success to the millions of people who are going through film school and who are trying it on their own without film school. Sounds depressing doesn’t it? That’s why filmmakers in general need to ask themselves if they have the strength, the talent, the drive, and the energy to become successful. Is this what they really want to do? If you have that drive I feel that you’ll be successful film school or no. Really, people need to think more realistic, I have seen countless friends of mine who have finished film school and are trying to shop their script around L.A. and nothing happens, or that they’re trying to be the next big director, it’s like trying to win the lottery.

I say this again, if you’re going to film school to work as a crewmember on any kind of film production you are doing the wrong thing. Some people spend all their time and money on film school and they do end up getting people their coffee. I am finishing my Masters Degree in film at Art Center College of Design and let me tell you, most people aren’t going there so they can be the first to bring coffee to Robert Rodriguez. I’ve worked in the film business for a long time. I feel that school is right for me at this point. If others feel it’s not their thing than don’t do it. Like I said some will crash and burn after film school, it’s just what happens. Again you need a to have goals and you need to have a drive, talent is a “bit” important too.

10 minutes is not all you need, if that’s your idea of a becoming good filmmaker you’re in the wrong business, most people on this site will tell you that. The more you learn the better you get; Spielberg even says he is learning new things all the time.

If you go to film school you should be going to become a director, a director of photography or a producer…with a few other things in between. Focus on what you want to do, decide early and tailor you classes to that decision. On a side note; I think you can learn to be an editor in ways other than film school (a school tailored to editing perhaps) but that’s a whole other story, most film schools only touch on the basics of editing.


There is way too much info to bunch this all into a few paragraphs. I hope I didn’t ramble too much.


Nathan Fackrell

quote:

The main thing to understand is that Rodrigez method involves some risk.

And film school doesn't? The percentage of people who graduated from film school (within the past 10-20 years) and have become recognizable directors is very low.

"Robert Rodriguez isn't damn good though. . . Shark Boy and Lava Girl, anyone?"

Sin City and El Mariachi, anyone? Not to be an ass but I'm fairly certain he's made better films than you have, or else you'd be in his position and he in yours

Film school is somewhat unique in that employment opportunities at the level people would desire are few and far between. Imagine medical school if only 4-5% of graduates were actually able to find employment as doctors or surgeons - what if the rest had to be X-ray technicians or nurses? (not that anything is wrong with those occupations)

The point is that 'creative' industries operate mainly on merit and not on degrees. Same applies if you want to be a rock musician. You can go to Berklee but you have no more of a chance (not taking into account your skill level/talent) at making it than the dude playing in the bar band a few blocks down Mass. Ave. Similar to NYU, many of the profs at Berklee are failed or small-time musicians who thought they had enough skill to make it, but ended up teaching because their music career simply didn't pan out. You can learn a lot from those guys, but also learn from their existence that very few people reach the level where everyone wants to be.

Just remember that there are no guarantees and a degree is just a $100,000 piece of paper. LA is filled with thousands of others like you will be after graduation - they're employed in the pizza delivery industry

quote:

You can go to Berklee but you have no more of a chance (not taking into account your skill level/talent) at making it than the dude playing in the bar band a few blocks down Mass. Ave. Similar to NYU, many of the profs at Berklee are failed or small-time musicians who thought they had enough skill to make it, but ended up teaching because their music career simply didn't pan out. You can learn a lot from those guys, but also learn from their existence that very few people reach the level where everyone wants to be.

As a Berklee graduate, I beg to differ, Evan.
College, for me, was a speedway to and through knowledge, and left enough study materials for years thereafter. Though your statement about the teachers is partly true, you should also aknowledge that having a career (in music or film, for instance), and "making it", are two things that can be evaluated in terms of commercial success, and/OR take a very personal meaning, depending on your priorities in life, among many other things. In other words, not "everyone" want to be at the same place, or "level".
Some of these teachers never had any intention of "making it", or else they would at least have tried by moving to NYC, LA, or even Nashville. Instead, they chose to focus on the music, the art form, and not having to surround, mask, or enhance their talents by doing a bunch of PR, and taking a lot of BS. Instead they chose to teach, play a few gigs here and there, and devote some more time to raise a family, for instance. In their terms, they made it alright. They're teaching at one of the most recognized institutions for contemporary music education, they have the chance to jam with other teachers who have enjoyed other types of success, and the many visiting artists that don;t bring their own bands. And believe me, most of them seem pretty satisfied. Other don't, and certainly fit the stereotype you described.
But, regardless of their career choices, I was fortunate enough to get something useful from most of them (which is something you do mention). And I'm talking about stuff that's not in the textbooks, or any book for that matter. Even the ones that have tried to make it and failed had learned something from their failure that could be passed on.
While at college, I had the chance to play (and had some of my music played) for the first time for an audience of 1500 (or whatever the capacity of the BPC is). I got my work critiqued by professionals who had been in the industry for over 30 years (yeah, the industry). One of my arrangements got taken on a Latin American tour by a faculty member. I got tips and tricks that helped me skip the bar down Mass. Ave. if I wanted to, since I had done my fair share of bars (playing, I mean). And a whole bunch of ther s***. And none of this is on my resume, simply because it also expanded my skills in such ways that I have since gone far beyond these anecdotes. I could simply not have gotten this from playing at a bar (not to say there aren't succesful bands that started out that way).
Oh, btw, I also worked my ass off both in and out of college. If you just sit there for four years, yeah, your degree WILL be an expensive piece of paper. But it will be your fault, not theirs. And nothing will happen to you, college or no college, if you just sit there and expect stuff to happen to you. Well, actually... your bass player might get you a gig playing at some bar down Mass. Ave.

(Going over this before I post it, I just want to clarify it started out as a reply to Evan, then it sort of shifted into a reply to the original poster from a musician's point of view. I'm sorry if I went too far into what seemed like an autobiography, but it was meant to reinforce my point)

E.

I say, do whatever you want. If you want to go to film school, then go. People will say to go, and people will say don't and be Robert Rodriguez (hell yeah!)

Me personally? I didn't. I got into to the two I applied to, because I've got at least one ounce of talent somewhere, however I opted not to go due to the fact that I'm paying for college myself, and since they were out of state I would've needed to sell my liver to pay for it. My friends who ended up going say it's a farce, and one went so far as to tell me that I made the right decision in not going. I can't say if I'd feel the same way, but I'm studying communication, making short films, being contracted to do various things for the state of NJ, and loving it.

My personal philosophy is that if you make a good movie, and it's actually good, festivals will pick it up, it will be well recieved, and then repeat. If your movie is good, show it to everyone. I made one movie that was regarded as good, I keep copies of it in the trunk of my car. I've run into a few people at my local Starbucks who've gotten it played somewhere, people generally liked it, but there's not much in terms of releasing a short film, hence why I'm working on a good full length (as opposed to the crap I've made/think is funny.)

Film school or no film school, either you'll make a good movie or you won't. Quentin Tarantino (I hate bringing him up) didn't go to film school, he watched one too many movies, clumped them all together and made Reservoir Dogs, one of my favorite movies. Paul Thomas Anderson is another one who went to film school for two days, then got his tuition back and made a short film, then went on to direct Boogie Nights and Magnolia.

You can go the film school route, Eli Roth did, he has a big ego and (as far as I've seen) minimal talent. Cabin Fever sucked.

You can go either way. I'm not knocking film school, but it's not for everyone. You get connections, but without film school I've had no problem getting any connections so far.

what most people dont realize is that you dont go to filmschool to become successful really...you go to learn...thats what a school is for...to learn and be criticied. and that is worth 200000 dollar of admission because it WILL make you a much better film maker

quote:

what most people dont realize is that you dont go to filmschool to become successful really...you go to learn...thats what a school is for...to learn and be criticied.

I realize that but I still maintain you can learn as much in the 'real world' or by doing your own projects. Again, the music school analogy applies. You can surely go to a conservatory like Juilliard, or you can learn yourself by using books and listening to the masters. There's so much information in this world that it's important to realize film school is not the only place to learn how to make movies. It has some things combined into a more convenient, pre-packaged environment, but the really important stuff (finding actors, coming up with ideas) no one can do for you.

I don't think I have a problem translating my ideas to screen - obviously I can improve, but the technical stuff is secondary and not something I feel I have to pay tens of thousands of dollars a year to learn. I tend to focus on ideas.

quote:

Written by suspectx:

DO NOT go to film school if you plan on working as a 1st Assistant Director, 2nd assistant Director, anywhere on the camera crew or any crew for that matter....
I say this again, if you're going to film school to work as a crewmember on any kind of film production you are doing the wrong thing. Some people spend all their time and money on film school and they do end up getting people their coffee. I am finishing my Masters Degree in film at Art Center College of Design and let me tell you, most people aren't going there so they can be the first to bring coffee to Robert Rodriguez.

I can't agree with you more. School isn't for those who want to be in low-level positions in crews. It's for those who want to be working screenwriters, actors, and directors. No matter what route you make, you must bring in a sense of realism. You probably, no matter how much raw talent or ambition you have, will never make it to the level that RR or the other 1% that are there. You'll probably not call the shots. Instead you'll be "working" under someone else and be happy to earning that paycheck that you worked very hard for.

Let me just note what suspectx touched on: If you don't have drive and self-motivation, you have nothing in the film industry. No amount of film school can give you that intangable.

Robert Rogruguez went to film school and then broke Hollywood's door down, so how about doing both?

quote:

Originally posted by dpete:
Robert Rogruguez went to film school and then broke Hollywood's door down, so how about doing both?

Actually, yeah. That's a good point. Robert Rodriquez did go to film school.

Perhaps he meant to say the Tarantino route...

quote:

Originally posted by dpete:
Robert Rogruguez went to film school and then broke Hollywood's door down, so how about doing both?

`

but he didn't finish film school!

that seems to be a common motiff, Paul Thomas Anderson went to film school and didn't finish, as did Kevin Smith. I'm not saying either of them are any better than anyone else, but I can't think of any directors off hand that I'm 100% sure finished film school.

EDIT: Eli Roth.

I do, MArc Forster, NYU undergrad, made me want to go to NYU

and many many more (look into recent USC grads, also NYU master grads...or AFI)

well paul thomas anderson only went for two days so that really doesnt count.

If I had a networking job to do, went in, turned on one computer and then left, I didn't finish my networking job either. Two days or two months, regardless, he still didn't finish film school.