By the way, this is my first time posting a full length film on a website other than youtube. It will be interesting to see what you guys have to say and I look forward to it. "Gangsters and Vengeance" started as a small idea when I was in 10th grade. I wanted to make a film that was under ten minutes, set in one room and people died. It would mean way more than that. I didn't know it yet, but "Gangsters and Vengeance" would one day reflect the conflicts in my own life. A major theme of the film is overreaction. The characters within the film overreact under different circumstances, leading to the ultimate consequence: death. I'm actually refilming with new equipment, fresher dialogue and different actors. There are a few technical errors in this version, but hopefully you enjoy it and feel free to leave reviews!

Gangsters and Vengeance Part One

Gangsters and Vengeance Part Two

This message has been edited. Last edited by: MarkChristmas,

Somebody must've watched this film. I KNOW you guys have good advice. I'd really like to have the opinion of other filmmakers, especially people like you, who know what they're talking and can help me reshape the next time I shoot "Gangsters and Vengeance." Opinions would be great... as I know you have them.

Heya,

I watched your movie last night, and it left me with a very good impression! Unfortunately, I'm at work right now, so I can't go over anything and everything, but I can tell you what I remember.

I LOVED the camera work, and the editing. Superb, seriously. One little thing though, try not to get the camera bumped around so much, I remember several instances where the framing would suddenly be jerked a little or a lot, and it would take me completely out of the story.

I liked the actors, though they all seemed reaaaally young to pull something like a gangster film off. The main guy who whips his gun out first, he's got the most memorable face, and his acting was the best out of all of them, as well. But I think that can be cured with... a change in cast, actually (which I see you've already taken care of)... and a little tweaking in the story itself. Be sure to cast some real adults to be the main guy's opposition--I think it'd be a good idea to keep the main actor. (And when I say older guys... I mean men who can pull off gruffness just by looking the part.) The girl was good, but... I don't think I ever really saw her face. Her bangs got in the way a lot, and her face was in shadow most of the time. Also, I think you should develop the chemistry between the main guy and the girl more. I mean, you have him get so angry at that one crucial point where he takes out his gun and points it at the other guy's head, but I think the development up to that point can be made a lot more crucial, and urgent, and... well, violent. The curve going to the climax scene slopes really gently, I think, especially because... well, people just have this idea of what gangsters are like, and these young kids aren't exactly up to par.... I don't know, have any of the cast or crew here ever been in a life-or-death situation, where only your wits can pull you through it all safely? I think everyone's trying to act too "cool" to be aware of that... that certain tension that only those people who deal with death every other day have. In fact, I don't think it's a cool business at all. I think only psychopaths continue thinking "Hey, this is my dream life" when they get into a gang, become a gangster.... It's probably really scary, and people are really jumpy but try to hide it because if you show any kind of fear you're done for.

Yeah, so, I like the basic plot but I think you could really heighten the tension here. Whether it's body language, glances, catching each other's eyes, tightening up the dialogue a little, a bit more slant in the framing and more use of shadows (oh, and I think the use of candles is a bit antiquated, especially since you can totally tell the main source of light is coming from the ceiling light... which is obviously electric).

I like that only the girl survives, but I think her role in the beginning should be much smaller; I think she should be like a doll these guys play with, a doll that only comes to life once they're all dead. So it's like, who's the real mastermind/puppeteer here? I think that was your point in having her survive, kill off the last guy, take what she could, and leave; I just think that also can be heightened for effect. (But shorten the time it takes her to get all that stuff and get out, the longer it takes, the less outstanding of a denouement it becomes.)

Okay, so... sorry if I ever seemed harsh, I know it's easy to misunderstand online, but I honestly really liked your work, and I think if you can work on those things I talked about, you'd have a really tight movie.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Maseiya,

Thanks for the response! It's good to hear constructive criticism, it really is and, no, you weren't harsh at all. I really, really, REALLY appreciate it. Anyway, to answer some of your questions/ideas.

One of the biggest reasons I am refilming is because I rewrote the script, making the dialogue MUCH more realistic. I also got a new camera and will work on avoiding the turbulent camera jerks as well as fix the lighting. It was a little too dark in the first version, but I've discovered why. I actually want to make the girl character, JEAN MCLEAN, a little more prominent because the major question is: Did she know what she was doing all along? Is she THAT smart? The candles were to symbolize a burning rage in a contained environment. I am changing the actors around a little bit. And, yes, I completely agree that the first guy to shoot, my practical-brother Jim, has a very memorable face which fit his character perfectly. I'm going to try and create a little more tension and flex the characters muscles a little bit. Thanks! Hopefully more people have advice like yours. This is the first time I've ever posted a film on this site where I can get people who know what they're talking about to view my films, so I'm not lying when I say I was a little nervous... and still am.

Sweetness.

I'd still like to contest that Jean McLean be a less prominent figure until the very end, though.... Look at it this way, if she's a suspicious character from the start, the audience will immediately sense something fishy, right? Don't deliver the surprise too early! Save it, built up to it, release it with a bang! (Haha!)

I really think like... a knowing smirk at the end, after she kills the last guy... would show that she definitely knew what she was doing, and that she was actually quite fearless and... manipulative.

But of course, she is your character, and I don't know what exactly you want from her. I just wanted to put in my two cents about this because the two films I worked on that had a character similar to that, I delivered the punch too early, and it definitely lessened the impact. Or so my film professors told me. Just passing the idea along...

Good luck with the remake, I'm really interested in seeing how it turns out.

ps. I'm still impressed with the camera work and the editing (and the directing too, though I don't think I mentioned that before).

I see what you mean, actually. I just wanted to make her character a little more talkative. I felt she was so silent you couldn't really figure out who she was. So I want to bring the characters a little closer together and make them appear to be more friends, which they are in real life anyway. Towards the end, when she opens the door to leave, I can see what you're saying about the smirk--but, I like having it all in one shot so I'd probably just have her turn around and survey the situation once more. Mind if I send you the script?

Aha, I get it now.

You know what you're doing and you have good reasoning, so I'll retire my arguments, hehe.

Sure, that'd be great. I can't promise a reply to it today or even this weekend--but definitely by Monday. =)

I wouldn't call it an argument, you have some great ideas. Where can I see your films? I'll send you the script right now and take your time on it.

The suspense and surprise when the first guy first pulls the trigger is great. Truly. Haha it made me jump in my seat and i accidentally closed the window since my finger was on the mouse. I don't have any advice since I have no experience but I enjoyed it. The black and white was great. And the actor who first pulled the trigger was particularly good, too

Well congratulations on telling a story from beginning to end...its not easy.

I agree with the others concerning your good handle on cinematography and the great suspense-building.

If you do remake this again, I would recommend easing off a little on the gangster themes and attitudes. You have to realize that as soon as the audience picks up on the fact that you are going for that gangster-genre feeling, they will immediately start using classic gangster performances (Robert DeNiro, Joe Pesci, etc) as a measuring rod to judge your film. And unfortunately none of us can really compete with those groundbreaking classics, so in a way you are a losing before you even begin to fight for the audience's respect and attention.

I think you can tell the exact same story and build the same suspense without necessarily using those traditional stock gangster characters. Perhaps you could go for more of a stylish 1920's look for your film. I could defnitely see that working

Thank you all for the response, it's good to hear suggestions. Unfortunately, after thinking about it I decided to not refilm it. I felt that I should move on and try something else, instead of dwelling on the past. My next film will be very short, very simple and to the point. It is called "Blow Job."

I was wondering if any more people would be interested in watching this and giving me opinion. Harsh or not. This is the only website, from my perspective, that has a plethora of young filmmakers truly passionate about movies and I hope to one day work with a majority of you.

That's why what you have to say about my movies means so much. And vice versa.