Hey, everyone. Here’s a screenwriting problem with which I’ve struggled throughout the duration of my filmmaking life. Read if you’re interested, and reply if you can offer any help or sympathize with similar problems. Thanks.

If I had to divide my writing styles into two distinct categories, they would as follows: The first is what I call “pseudo-serious,” because it’s a serious story in comedic disguise; the second is “not-serious-at-all,” and it’s totally, unapologetically comedic with no pretense whatsoever. The second is cake to write; the first is where the trouble brews.

So, the second category aside (of which I admit I’ve written my fair share), whenever I craft a real story with real characters with real motivations, my main character, my protagonist, has been a fairly straight, normal, easy-to-recognize individual, whereas my supporting characters are wild incarnations of single ideas. Put another way, my supporting characters are essentially stagnant, cardboard figures, but they’re fun to watch; my main character is generally a developed, well-realized person, but, by comparison, he’s boring.

This has been a seemingly unbreakable trend in my writing. The one film I currently have on this site, The Legend of Monkey Fight, is a typical example. The main character changes, and (hopefully) these changes are apparent to the audience; we can see him mulling and shifting and developing into a believable character (I think). However, standing alone, without interaction with the cartoonish supporting characters, he’s not so interesting. Yargh.

I think the trouble is this: I create a character with whom (I believe) my audience can identify. This means he’s fairly normal, he has no outlandish personality traits, and, most importantly, he’s not just a quick sketch of a goofy cartoon. Then, after I’ve accomplished that and written my “real” character, I have the freedom to make all the supporting characters into giant, malformed reflections of people. They chew the scenery, they spit their lines with their tongues in their cheeks, and they entertain. It’s a formula I must have produced subconsciously, and I’ve stuck to it.

This recurs in my pseudo-serious writing everywhere I look. Even a sitcom spoof I wrote (co-wrote, actually) about Jesus, Buddha, and Mohammed, features my main character, Jesus, as the requisite, dull-faced, straight-laced bore. Jesus? I wrote a boring Jesus? Yes, it’s possible. Next, I’ll turn wine into water.

So what to do? The formula works, and I don’t think it’s painfully obvious to the casual viewer that my pseudo-serious films follow a familiar trajectory. It’s mostly annoying for me to notice again and again when I’m analyzing my stupid movies.

Has anyone else run into similar trouble? Do my boring characters reflect the boring little man whom I pretend not to be?

Dam Dirty Apes!

Interesting. I think this is just probably your style, and it does work for you. I've watched the legend of monkey fight and it must be one of the best on this site, but I must admit that the main character was a bit cliche, because he was so normal. I find that whenever I write a story, I never really let myself write a normal character, because I get bored in the process. I also don't want my audience to be bored by my main character, i want them to be intrigued by him, and as a result my protagonists are really weird, but human nonetheless. I typically write like this without much thought.. I think it's my style. But if you're looking to break this pattern that you have, I'd recommend just being conscious bout it, and disciplining yourself to keep your protagonist as weird as possible.
Here's another idea that just popped up, maybe you could keep writing the 'normal easy to recognize individual' just like you have before, then just add some weird traits that they have or something to keep them interesting. Or just make them look(their appearance) cool. Like give them an afro or something.

Fash

Thanks for your response. I guess I have taken the first step in breaking the pattern if I'm aware of the pattern at all.

quote:

Or just make them look(their appearance) cool. Like give them an afro or something.

Funny you should suggest that about the afro. In The Legend of Monkey Fight, we debated furiously over whether Aaron (who played Ping, the main character) should wear this giant black feathered mullet wig we had. Giant, yes, indeed, and feathered, oh god. This thing looked like the pelt of a gay bear. I argued the outlandish hair would detract from Ping's credibility, thus pushing him further into the realm of believable-but-boring. Aaron and Kevin were adamant about the wig before filming (mostly because it cost about $40), but I think we're all glad we didn't use it.

Dam Dirty Apes!

I have this book called "Making a Winning Short" and in it there's this form that's pretty much a character sheet for your movie. It has different categories to write a little about how the charater acts, traits it has, beliefs and so forth. Maybe if you wrote down stuff like that, you could consciencely make the character a bit more weird, and then when you're writing just glance at the sheet when ever you think they're getting boring, and figure out how they'd react a little more in character.

Its always important to have comedic characters play off the serious ones. Your habit of scripting the protagonist as bland and a bit vapid makes the other comedic characters work well. Hilarity ensues (to copy your description) when a serious character interacts awkwardly with the less serious ones. There are examples everywhere: In Seinfeld, Jerry is constantly annoyed with the whimsical notions of Kramer. The Smothers Brothers (Dїck and Tommy) are the ideal example here. Dїck plays standup bass and doesn't take any horsing around. Tommy plays guitar and constantly goes off on a tangent like rewording the songs without telling Dїck in the middle of a show, or continuing to play after the song has ended. Their trademark was performing folk songs that usually led to fake arguments between them. Any comedy sitcom has serious characters and the comedic ones that piss them off.

I think your protagonist is just missing a bit of color. You should try adding a bit more depth to his situation, some kind of weakness that he has towards the beginning. Obviously good screenwriting involves giving the character a weakness that he improves upon, but try making that weakness perhaps more prevalent, or even giving him a cliche thing he does, like mel gibson and how he's slightly suicidal in all the Lethal Weapons.

When we wrote Ace Ramano, we casted him as a normal kind of guy, except his main problem was that he was clunky and uncoordinated in every possible situation. While he was basically smooth in beating the bad guys up, he would start off with awkward kung fu poses that were obviously not kung fu. He's have little quirks like starting out every conversation with "I'm Ace Ramano, and...". Also this is where we brought in the funny look you're talking about. He had a god-awful mustache and the ugliest 70's outfit possible. This all combined made him likable: ungraceful, but fighting for the right reasons and entertaining to watch.

Harris, you're my hero. Legend of Monkey Fight was well executed. I don't think this will stand in your way for long.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: funkbomb,

Let me start by saying your line, "This thing looked like the pelt of a gay bear." Made me do a spit take.

I wouldn't worry too much, I think the idea of your character being boring provides an anchor for the more bizarre world he lives in as long as you deliver a good story.

And like a heroin addiction realizing you have a problem is half the battle. GO JOE! Of course puking and wanting to scratch your own eyes out is the other half.

Another issue might be detaching yourself from your main character, we tend to think of ourselves as pretty straightforward and in trying to flesh out a character we use ourselves as a frame of reference. There by making a self-conscious main character who plays it safe.

One way of breaking out of that is Robert Mckee's advice of making sure your character is actively doing things to the world around him as opposed to reacting to things being done to him.
But ultimately screenwriting is a black magic and when in doubt or in the throws of a creative block just drink goats milk.

Here's my favorite quote from a screenwriting class I took last year.

Teacher: "Your protagonist is boring and completely unlikable."

Student: "It's an autobiography."

Thanks for the help and the kind words, funkbomb. Who's Ace Ramano?

REDking, this is gold:

quote:

Teacher: "Your protagonist is boring and completely unlikable."

Student: "It's an autobiography."

Also:

quote:

But ultimately screenwriting is a black magic and when in doubt or in the throws of a creative block just drink goats milk.

Does goat's milk really work? I usually carve a pentagram into my chest and swallow the ground horns of a ram, but it's a lot of trouble and I honestly can't detect an increase in my dark powers after I do it.

Dam Dirty Apes!

quote:

Who's Ace Ramano?

If owner Chris does his homework Sunday (provided the Postal Service was nice to me) you'll be able to view it soon. It's a movie preview we shot for a high school project a few months back. We didn't have enough time before the broadcast to do a full-fledged movie so we shortened it to a trailer. We compensated though by extending the scenes and fleshing it out a little more than you would a normal preview.

Heer's some delicious preview thumbnails. Mmm. Like Fractured Prune doughnuts.

Wicked explosion, funkbomb. Ace reminds me of my own alter-ego, HotShot!, pictured below.


The biggest moment in my life happened at a friend's graduation party a couple months ago. Apparently, and unbeknowst to me at the time, a Dam Dirty Buddy of Mine had gotten a lot of our shorts aired on local Comcast cable, and HotShot was one of them.

Anyway, I walked into my friend's house and instantly overheard two guys whispering what sounded like:

"Is that HotShot?"

"Yeah, I think that's HotShot."

I had never seen either of these guys in my life, so I turned and gave 'em a cool-as-ice look, and one asked me, "Hey man, are you HotShot?"

I said (in a voice which still echoes in my head every time I lay down at night), "I'm HotShot."

"That's awesome!" they said, and greeted me with adoring handshakes. I felt like the tallest person in the world, and I haven't taken the jacket off since that day.

Anyway, glad to hear Ace Ramano will be on the site. I wanna see it, and, if I feel challenged, HotShot may have to battle Ace to the death in a a no-holds-barred bout of fisticuffs.

Dam Dirty Apes!

3 o'clock by the monkey bars.

That's awesome, to be recognized as a character. That's a taste of what so many of us dream about, having our drawings and visual creations sort of come to life. Steve Hyde, who plays Ace Ramano, dressed up in the whole garb (ugly red collared shirt, brown leather jacket and gold chain with aviators to top it off) a few days after the movie was shown in-class, and one of the more creative, eccentric vice principals announced over the PA system during 4th period: "Ace Ramano to the front office, Ace Ramano to the front office, you forgot your lunch." Or something like that. Anyway everyone loved it so we sold dvds of it with a bunch of extra features on there for about 6 bucks to raise money for a recently handicapped teacher:

http://ronklingner.org

So far we've raised about 300 dollars, but this guy has an unknown neurological disease and therefore his insurance company will not pay for it. If anyone here could donate somehow that would be fantastic.


I just got an email from Chris, Ace Ramano will be up August 3rd by his estimates. Poor guy--is he backed up that much? Definately deserved that last vacation...

quote:

Anyway everyone loved it so we sold dvds of it with a bunch of extra features on there for about 6 bucks to raise money for a recently handicapped teacher:

http://ronklingner.org

So far we've raised about 300 dollars...

Wow. That's inspiring.