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since when spielberg is ****ty?
Kubrick and bergman (two of the most important filmmakers of all time) dont agree with you.

Yeah but Kubrick (post Dr. Strangelove) can join Spielberg in the suck category, I'll let you know about Bergman when I actually get to see some of his work (Blockbuster has a shortage on his body of work at the moment, go figure!)

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Originally posted by Hill Dawson Kane:
Yeah but Kubrick (post Dr. Strangelove) can join Spielberg in the suck category, I'll let you know about Bergman when I actually get to see some of his work (Blockbuster has a shortage on his body of work at the moment, go figure!)

Ya since The Shining, Full Metal Jacket and A Clockwork Orange suck and everything. I don't even like A Clockwork Orange but that doesn't mean it's not a masterpiece. Pull your head outta your ass, Mr. Fancypants.

Pretty accurate pic btw Fellini heh

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Ya since The Shining, Full Metal Jacket and A Clockwork Orange suck and everything. I don't even like A Clockwork Orange but that doesn't mean it's not a masterpiece. Pull your head outta your ass, Mr. Fancypants.

Once again thanks for managing to say everything and nothing at the same time

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Originally posted by Hill Dawson Kane:
Once again thanks for managing to say everything and nothing at the same time

Cheese makes a great friend on a Wednesday night when you don't have any lettuce.

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Cheese makes a great friend on a Wednesday night when you don't have any lettuce.

Leave your day job out of this

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Originally posted by Hill Dawson Kane:

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Cheese makes a great friend on a Wednesday night when you don't have any lettuce.

Leave your day job out of this

So why does Kubrick suck after Dr. Strangelove again?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: FashtheStampede,

Here's an interesting review of A Clockwork Orange by Pauline Kael. I don't know how you guys feel about Kael, but I tend to agree with much of what she says, even many of her Kubrick detractions... and I'm still a big Kubrick fan.

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So why does Kubrick suck after Dr. Strangelove again?

Because after that he started making films about objects, or at least thats what he treated his characters as. It was more about giving them all his trademark "stare" and sorry to fall into the stereotype, but whats been said about him being distanced or isolated in feelings with his characters is true, they seem to just go through the motions, or are completely outrageous (The Shining and the hysteria). Sure, this might have been appropriate for the projects he did, and I would agree that it was the right thing to do for his films post Strangelove, but that only reflects on how those projects were more preconcieved ideas planned out to the dotted 'i'. Before with Paths of Glory, Strangelove, and even Lolita he seemed to be interested in the charcters and their emotional and fundamental movements through the story. Even a film like Strangelove that is a satiracle parody offers so much on human beings and behavior. 2001 was ok as a film and experiment, on not having to just hand answers out on a plate, and willing to provoke an audience, but by Clockwork he was doing it for the sake that he COULD do it and get away with it, which renders it no longer of merit cause its done not for the characters, but in their vain. There are only sparse moments in FMJ and EWS where he actually gets the fundamental character behavior that he was capable of in his earlier career, look at the Pyle/Joker scenes when theyre alone, "Everybody hates me" and in EWS when the story of the naval officer is told (which was brilliant minus the pot). So its not so much that he was bad in comparison to others or what he could do as much as that his other films are that much better. Like when you see Marlon Brando in Superman and wonder "What the f*ck?"

I think Kubrick was always emotionally distant, and that's one thing that makes him so unique as a successful director. He prefers to explore theme over characters in every one of his films (Strangelove and Lolita included), and mostly it works. It's just a different approach to filmmaking, and it's done with a deft enough hand to be provocative and involving. It's why The Godfather deserves a sequel and 2001 doesn't; nobody gives a **** what happens to HAL after the credits. And if you do give a ****, read one of Clarke's many ****ty sequels.

Kubrick got away with sparse character development because his audience identifies with his themes, not necessarily with the people demonstrating them.

Darren Aronofsky (though his collection of work is at this point very limited) seems to be another director who prefers theme over characters. Neither Pi nor Requiem featured particularly strong characters (though the actors gave performances convincing enough to make us forget it), but both films are gripping because they explore themes (obsession, addiction) that are human and familiar and relevant to us.

Actually, writing this has probed my interest. Who are some other directors who seem to value theme over character?

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Darren Aronofsky (though his collection of work is at this point very limited)

And it looks like he's already about to tank after peaking with (your choice) Requiem or Pi. Pi was pretty great on its own merits; Requiem was good but a lot of that was because of Selby, not Aronofsky, and the talented cast (as you pointed out).

Verhoeven probably values theme over character, and I love his films for that

I´m probably going to be flamed for saying this, but I think Darren Aronofsky is not quite good as people say he is .
He´s just style and "technique" over quality and story. I enjoyed both but the story was quite simple.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Fellini77,

Not really sure what we're talking about because I came in late and can't be bothered ready all of the posts, but on the subject of "Flags of Our Fathers":
It definetly wasn't Eastwood's best film, but at the same time was still a really good film, which I enjoyed watching. I can't wait to see "Sands of Iwo Jima". Something about seeing Eastwood's and Spielbergs name's on the credits is just awesome.