I took it as a joke.

While I do hope that Evan is joking, I respect his opinion of Miami Vice as unique if he truly does feel this way, even though I wholeheartedly disagree. I just want to remind Evan if this is the case that Miami Vice was shot in hi-def and Departed was shot on film. Just to attempt to sway you to the side of The Departed, which is clearly the better film.

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I just want to remind Evan if this is the case that Miami Vice was shot in hi-def and Departed was shot on film. Just to attempt to sway you to the side of The Departed, which is clearly the better film.

That's your defense? It was shot on film? Or it had less sex and violence, or the "critics" liked it (they also LOVED Titanic and BBM btw)? Evan is obviously joking, but challenging you at the same time, least you could do is come is come up with a more appropriate reasoning.

No, I actually wasn't joking. Miami Vice was brilliant at interrogating the nature of the modern Hollywood action film. The use of video only highlights its subversiveness.

As a narrative, it's unusually tightly constructed and engaging.

As a discourse about film, it's more relevant than 99% of everything Hollywood is making.

This is the problem with being labeled as 'the film snob' all the time. When I like something that may also have popular appeal everyone thinks I must be joking...

Besides, I have nothing against video when it's used appropriately. Cache and Miami Vice are both better for using it.

how could it be a necessary film? It was already a long running tv series and a video game. What more entertainment do we need from two cops???? Couldnt they have called it Bad Boys or Miami something else?

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Miami Vice was sexually and violently exploitative and criminally derivative.

How?

Did its insistence on verisimilitude upset you? I found it to be extremely compelling.

On metacritic Miami Vice had a 65 and Departed an 87...

These are just numbers... I also suspect (although I haven't seen Departed yet) that Scorsese is drawing in a lot of (potentially unmerited) praise for what is essentially a straightforward genre piece (not that there's anything wrong with that). From the absurdly glowing reviews you'd think this film is the next Raging Bull... but in five years I doubt this will be considered a major part of his oeuvre.

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how could it be a necessary film? It was already a long running tv series

Did you watch the show? Did you see the movie?

It's actually quite necessary. More so than most other Hollywood films. Comparing either the show or the movie to dreck like Bad Boys is a complete disservice to Miami Vice.

I thought Kubota was joking, until I found this alarming discussion on IMDb. Apparently Miami Vice is one of the greatest things since the french new wave films.

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As a discourse about film, it's more relevant than 99% of everything Hollywood is making.

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It's actually quite necessary. More so than most other Hollywood films. Comparing either the show or the movie to dreck like Bad Boys is a complete disservice to Miami Vice.

thats all nice and fine evan, but you and i both know judging on the bell curve is a horrible way to seperate good films from bad films.

The Departed is receiving insane critical acclaim. It will easily be a classic 5, 10, 20 years from now. I've never heard of so many people seeing a movie repeatedly before. It seems like everyone I know has watched it 2 or 3 times, film students or otherwise. People are raving about it.

Miami Vice was crap according to audiences and critics alike. The audience reaction is what makes a movie a classic, not the insistence on verisimilitude. In 5 years no one will remember that there WAS a Miami Vice movie.

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Miami Vice was crap according to audiences and critics alike.

Did you see it?

I'm refraining from lambasting the Departed too much until I actually see it, but again, my suspicion is that this praise is too monolithic and unqualified for what is essentially one of Scorsese's minor genre flicks (and something that looked absolutely awful from the trailer, IMO).

Will it really be a 'classic' 20 years from now...?

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I've never heard of so many people seeing a movie repeatedly before. It seems like everyone I know has watched it 2 or 3 times, film students or otherwise. People are raving about it.

Only one person I know has seen it even once. They thought it was moderately entertaining, but not worthy of the absurd praise.

HDK: I'm not judging it on a curve. I was only pointing out its status in relation to other Hollywood films for some people who may only be able to conceive of any film *except* in relation to Hollywood. The default point of reference for most (North) Americans, so to speak.

For myself, I have no qualms about recommending Miami Vice unconditionally. John Woo's HK gunplay films are art, despite (because of?) their fantastically indulgent melodrama. Miami Vice works on much the same level.

Another thing - Eastwood's new WWII film is getting similarly outlandish praise, at least for now. With 5 reviews on metacritic the average is 93. Will this avoid the same pitfalls as MDB and Mystic River? I can't say I think it will. And look at the praise those received, despite being extremely questionable, both ethically and cinematically.

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The Departed is receiving insane critical acclaim. It will easily be a classic 5, 10, 20 years from now. I've never heard of so many people seeing a movie repeatedly before. It seems like everyone I know has watched it 2 or 3 times, film students or otherwise. People are raving about it.

Come on, its only made like 55 million in two weeks, which would be diminished if the same rabid core ahs seen it 2 or 3 times. More people saw The Grudge 2 last week than The Departed. More people saw POTC2 in a day then saw The Departed. As Evan said, this isn't going to be remembered like Raging Bull or Taxi Driver are now so to say that "everyone," film student or not is talking about it is a pretty bold statement considering, how many ppl even know who Scorsese is anyways? Other than those who have to put up with a Miramax Oscar push every February, which seems to be what this is, a mirror of Gangs and Aviator pre-oscar blitz. Remember when those 2 were both his "best film since Raging Bull" and who remembers or talks about them now? I bet all 25 copies of The Aviator are sitting in the reduce Blockbuster bin just two years later.

i actually have watched the show numerous times, and mostly only for the nostalgic clothes and location Lately ive tried watching Columbo but thats boring as hell. remember than Nash BRidges where Falk was his dad?

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For myself, I have no qualms about recommending Miami Vice unconditionally. John Woo's HK gunplay films are art, despite (because of?) their fantastically indulgent melodrama. Miami Vice works on much the same level.

we'll have to agree to disagree here, as ive come to a sad state where i can no longer enjoy films with guns and violence (even if they are stopping evil cocaine dealers) every film i used to enjoy used to be full of violence, and there's no doubt John Woo is the last greatest action director (besides Steven Reedy, but where is that guy?) oter than that its just so repetiv and boring now to see guns being pointed at people. ITs silly. Its also just not a good influence on people, because of gangster movie tough guys (im not saying miami vice has any cliches like this ,i dont know) but these sort of things have heavily influenced people into delusional thoughts concerning being tough and badass or whatever. Ive been threatened by my friends in ways youd expect to only hear in movies! its not necesarry!

More middle school kids and teenager hangout groups are going to go see the Grudge 2 than the Departed. The Dep is not one of those movies that would really appeal to younger ages. Plus at my theater they were checking I.D's so that kills a lot of people right away.

that proves that Scorsese doesnt care about it the way he says. does the content in it that keeps the kids away really that necessary? And doesnt TV pretty much already exploit everything?

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does the content in it that keeps the kids away really that necessary

Yes, absolutely. Watch the film. You sound silly critiquing it without seeing it. Trust me

I really want to see this now, the cast looks awesome!

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That's your defense? It was shot on film? Or it had less sex and violence, or the "critics" liked it (they also LOVED Titanic and BBM btw)? Evan is obviously joking, but challenging you at the same time, least you could do is come is come up with a more appropriate reasoning.

HDK, I was being sarcastic when I tried to reason with Evan on the whole film vs. HD thing. I wouldn't ever actually base my reasoning on the format it was shot in, because that isn't the vital aspect of a movie being good or not. I guess from now on I will put a sarcasm in parentheses when I need to get that across in a post.

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In 5 years no one will remember that there WAS a Miami Vice movie.

Ahhh, and what about in 50 years? I'm yet to see it, but after reading this imdb post, and Evan's response, perhaps this film has a chance to hit people like a ton of bricks 20,30,40 years from now, much in the same fashion that Brazil is just now being recognized as a classic.

Except for the color reproduction, that Viper camera that Mann loves so much sucks. And so does his soundtrack selection.

By the way, any comparisons between the television program and the film are unfair. Riding in a speedboat with Gong Li and a Texas-sized mustache, blaring Moby (or whatever that crap was), is much different from running red lights in a Volkswagen Beetle with a fake Ferrari bodykit, blaring Phil Collins. Don Johnson had only the latter, and he looked badass doing it.

I once felt much the same way about Natural Born Killers as it seems Evan feels about Miami Vice. In reality, they both suck.

The Departed is awesome.