By Gus Vant Sant. Moving movie. You have to be patient and watch the entire movie to actually be punched in the stomach and make you realize that it could anywhere, at any time.... One of my favorite movies. Has a lot of meaning.

While I liked certain aspects of it, I disliked other, like when the two gunmen were all of the sudden gay, and played piano, watched Nazi Propoganda, and ordered their gun through the mail "I've got my tech-9." This juts isn't the way I ever saw things, would have rather seen how the everyman snaps, not the cliche angst ridden teen. It was ironic that everyone except the black guy was introduced by name at the beginning, and then the black guy died like a minute after he was introduced to the story.

i havent seen Elephant, but from what i've heard, it sounds kinda lame (Kane's comments make the movie sound like something we'd see in a stupid episode of NYPD Blue)

but anyone seen BULLY? Kinda the same idea (I guess) Crazy teens killing eachother. The movie blows hard.

ive seen it and understood it, but im still not sure if i liked it or not, i watched it thre months ago and i still dont know.

The film definitely stop and made me think. I thought it had a great technique and one of those stories that people should just be aware of. I wouldn't say it's one of my favorites.

Elephant was the worst movie I saw last yeat.

The movie, for those of you who don't know, is about a school shooting. Sort of. Because its not really about anything. At all. Because while it does follow the routines of these different high-school-archetype-students, it doesn't give them any depth at all. A slightly effeminate boy is a photographer. That's great. Nice guy kid who dresses rebelliously has a drunken daddy. Super. Rich white bitches purge their lunches in the bathroom stalls. Awesome. Big black guy gonna fight the power. Fan ****ing tastic. But what do these grossly broad (and in some cases offensive) stereotyped characters have to do with anything? Precisely ****. In the grand scheme of the film as a whole, these characters don't do anything or get fleshed out more than an inch deep.

So this "radical portrait of American high school life" is as shallow in its portrayals of American teenagers as the filth foisted upon them by MTV.

And did Viva la Bam win the Palme D'Or?

And the oft-discuessed shower scene was one of the few scenes that actually worked for me. Let me clear this up. They weren't gay. They were sexually repressed teenagers who knew they were about to die. They didn't want to die without having been kissed. BUT, the ambiguity of this scene for so much of the audience sort of cancels out any kudos I can give it. Because it does come across to the audience that these guys were gay, and, in the audience's hopeless quest for meaning in this meaningless film, they will conclude that the reason we found out that they "were gay" was that that aspect of their character somehow tied into the central point of the story-- the shooting.

And the quasi-real-time thing was a neat trick. Sort of. I would say it was cool and new, but mainstream Hollywood did the exact same thing with Snake Eyes six years before this picture came out. And once again, what did it have to do with the picture as a whole? What purpose did it serve in telling the story of the shootings? Since the characters followed in all of the little cutaways do nothing, then why cutaway to them.

And the elephant of the title is a reference to the proverbial "elephant in the room"-- the big obvious problem that everyone is ignoring. So, Mr. Van Sant's trying to say that there's some serious problem with American youth that is being ignored and that's leading to violence in schools. But what is it? The movie doesn't even answer this question.

So, bottom line, I hate it. It claims, like Gerry and My Own Private Idaho before it, to be some higher kind of anti-narrative artistry. Well, guess what, Gussy: anti-narrative has been done before. And the people who have been doing it before you made good movies out of their anti-narrative experiments.

Like Un Chien Andalou for example (both versions work, but for the sake of argument, I'm talking Dali, since his is older). That movie didn't have any semblance of a story, but, dude, it was pretty freakin' awesome. That was high-concept filmmaking. It was revolutionary and it was scary, and the audience was pretty much paying attention to what was going on, even if they didn't have the first fraction of a clue what the hell precisely that was.

So, unless "boring" is the new frontier of cinema, Gus Van Sant is no deconstructionist pioneer.

Look, you can make a movie about nothing. But in order for a movie about nothing to be worth a ****, it also has to be good. Seinfeld was a show about nothing. But it was good.

basically, if you want a film that properly analyzes the whole high school shooting thing, watch Bowling For Columbine

nice post Ryan, I still should see the movie someday, but now it even sounds lamer than I imagined.

and about Seinfeld, I used to like that show, but recently I discovered that I hate it.

is there any hope for tv?

quote:

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Originally posted by Hill Dawson Kane:
basically, if you want a film that properly analyzes the whole high school shooting thing, watch Bowling For Columbine

---

I agree HDK, while maybe not on the WHOLE level, but it definitely offered deeper insight into the scheme without personalizing stereotypical high school students.

Ryan, I completely agree. Thats why I think its a great movie. When I say, thats all I mean, the movie. Not the story, or the plot, or sub-plots, the picture itself. The reason the answer to the teen/ highschool crisis/ shootings/ violence in the media question isnt answered is because he doesnt know the answer. I think very few people do. But the movie made people stop and think about it, and hopefully some of those people might seek the answer. But some aspects within the movie, as you said, sucked.

pretty good movie, since school sux ... and they shoot up a school ... then its good!

well i though this film was great. Cause there are some F***ing morons at school that should be killed. Even if it is for a little thing like throwing a paper ball at someone.(from movie)For example today we went to see a play for school,MACBETH, and the dumb A$$ kids started to talk during it. I at that point wished i had a gun and shot them in the F***ing Face. Kids are idiots,not all of course, but many. That is why i loved this film cause some kids died. They got no respect for anyone. Poor dumb bast@rds. EDIT <= i miss spelled it]

Well i guess i liked it cause im crazy...

Hey FBI... put Juan-L on your watch list

"Bully" is a good movie. Very stark, uncompromising, and disturbing.

nah, bully is lame teenie bopper crap.

I liked Bully and Elephant. I thought Bully was some pretty heavy stuff and found the climax to Elephant so disturbing. It just had me chilled to the bone. Strange that I found this movie disturbing with a real lasting affect but movies like Requiem for a Dream, Pi, Happiness, Gummo, etc. All of these "distrubing" movies I really seem to go 'meh' to. Although I like all of the films I just mentioned, I didn't find them disturbing in any way.

quote:

originally posted by Ryan Gomez:
So this "radical portrait of American high school life" is as shallow in its portrayals of American teenagers as the filth foisted upon them by MTV.

Perfect. I totally agree. I don't think Elephant raised awareness so much as it did contribute to the public's already skewed view of teenage mentality. Gay kids with guns who like video games will kill your children. Poignant observation, Gus.

quote:

originally posted by Hill Dawson Kane:
basically, if you want a film that properly analyzes the whole high school shooting thing, watch Bowling For Columbine

I saw a good analysis buried somewhere beneath the sensationalism and the oh-so-subtle "shock-you-into-reality" moments. I just can't take a "documentary" like this seriously when a big fat moron is parading in front of me the entire time. Michael Moore is 0% journalist and 100% celebrity. He has some good things to say; he just can't say them in a professional manner. I hate him.

quote:

originally posted by Juan-L:
well i [sic] though [sic] this film was great. Cause [sic] there are some F***ing morons at school that [sic] should be killed.

If I were in school with you, I would totally beat you up and steal your girlfriend.

Actually, the 2002 movie, "Russian Ark" by Russian Director Aleksandr Sokurov is probably the most brilliant example of real time filming - Using a specially-designed digital camera, a massive crew, and a meticulously coordinated cast, director Aleksandr Sokurov created the longest shot in film history - a 95 minute long, uninterrupted journey through 300 years of Russian history.

:P

ochopatas

I remember reading about Russian Ark a couple years ago, but I had forgotten all about it. That really is an amazing accomplishment.

However, I think that "real time" conventionally means that there are no time lapses; that is, if a movie is 90 minutes long, then the story told within the movie occurs in no more than 90 minutes. I don't know what the term would be to describe Sokurov's unbroken shot method.

Anyway, thanks for reminding me of Russian Ark. I must see it.

Dam Dirty Apes!

I thought elephant was interesting, but when it was all said and done it didn't have the effect on me that i was hoping it would. instead of feeling the need to reflect on what I saw I felt more like going and doing something else. I had already been there, I had already done that. It just didn't seem new to me; as was mentioned earlier the stereotypes did much to dampen the potential impact of the film. The lack of unique character development made the final sequence feel empty and disappointing.

If you are lookign for a much more effective yet different look at similar issues, I highly reccommend the japanese import Battle Royale, which shows the transformation of a class of ninth graders when they are forced to fight to the death on an island (by order of the Japanese Government). I left this film utterly wowed and sat for a few to digest what i just saw. The movie is simply superb and delievers a punch that is not easily forgotten.

Anyways, just my 2 cents

Bah, Battle Royale. Based on a book which is essentially just a copy of William Golding.