Well I think the majority of the people who have seen this film would agree that this isn't the best film in the past 5 years. So it's at least popular fact. Just because it's hot on the east coast and you have a few freinds who are gushing over it being the "best movie they've ever seen in thier entire lives," doesn't make it a cinematic event that comes along only once every 5 years. I mean it's not a Dardenne film, it's not a scorsese masterpiece...it's not bergman comig out of a 26 yr retirement to direct his final film before dying...it isn't City of God. Those were cinematic events...landmark achievements that changed cinema. CoM either is or it isn't and...with the way it was recieved nationally, critically, and at the box offices in comparison to some other high end films even this year, I'd definitely say it isn't.

And seeing as no one can agree on what IS the best movie, we're stuck aren't we? Oh, right... that proves what I was saying.

quote:

Originally posted by titaniumdoughnut:
And seeing as no one can agree on what IS the best movie, we're stuck aren't we? Oh, right... that proves what I was saying.

The best film in the past 5 years?

I'd say either City of God or Oldboy. Those are landmark cinematic events that will, years from now, join the ranks of the all time classics and inspire countless aspiring filmmakers and influence thier styles. They were perfectly made, perfectly written and perfectly shot and were films you watched upon their release, already knowing that they would one day be considered classics. Tarnation isn't nearly as good as those, but is a technological landmark for Indy filmmaking in that it only cost 86 bucks to make. Also, I've known many more people who've gushed over eternal sunshine than CoM and still do, watching it religiously...I believe some of those people visit this board occasionally.

quote:

I'd say either City of God or Oldboy

And I'd say no. (City of God was glorious, but no one saw it, and many didn't like it. I've never even heard of Old Boy. Quick check on IMDb and it looks obscure, but interesting.)

Starting to see the pattern? No one agrees.

I don't mean to be a jerk...and, to me, this is what cinephiles do. We don't simply acquiesce...we don't say, "Well, everyone has thier opinions." We say, "no way, man...this is how it is," then back it up with our points. During the new wave (and to some of us still today), film was like religion...you spoke about it with the tense conviction one does when discussing religion or any other personal, moral belief. I'll let you guys know how I feel and I won't back down to say, "To each their own." That's the fun of it..that's the beauty of it. Bertolucci got his nose broken during a heated discussion over pickpocket. Having that religious conviction over how you feel about film is what makes the art form alive and personal...so yeah. That's the way it is.

And PS...City of God is 100 times the film CoM could even dream of being....Cuaron couldn't even lick the shoes of Marielles. That's a fact: Pure an Unadulturated. And for a foreign film, it's done TREMENDOUSLY well and you are quite wrong in saying not many people liked it got a 94% tamotometer rating and 785 of the creamof the crop reviews were full ratings (4/4, 5/5).

I would say there is a bit of hyperbole around Children of Men this year. Director's and Cinematographer's love it. Writers think it's a bit shady in some of its storytelling.

I would say there are at least three better films this year.

United 93, Pan's Labyrinth, and The Fountain

Wow, this is insane. I don't want to play the preference card anymore, but you just obviously weren't hip to CoM's vibe like quite a few of us have. Out of that entire list the only one I'll concede to is Oldboy, because, if you read my review of CoM on that thread, you'll see that I praised Cuarón for going in a similiar direction to Chan-wook Park. However, I find the rest of your list a joke for it mostly consists of movies ranging from mediocre to just good. Mostly though because you mentioned Elephant, and that's really just a damn insult. As for Flight 93, I see where you guys could compare the two, but then again, you're mistaking visceral for Greengrass's Parkinson's disease. City of God, and here we are full circle, back to preference, because I was totally not hip to this movie's vibe. I'll watch and praise Children of Men a million times over before I even think of City of God.

We've seemed to have watched the same movies and have taken different things away from them, so yeah, it's gotta be about preference.

Oh, and since Daniel brought it up, the Fountain was fantastic, and was really the only contender with Children of Men last year. IMO.

elliott (otiose)...

quote:

Originally posted by titaniumdoughnut:

quote:

I'd say either City of God or Oldboy

. I've never even heard of Old Boy. Quick check on IMDb and it looks obscure, but interesting.)

Starting to see the pattern? No one agrees.

i wouldn't say obscure, my local "underground ish" newspaper reviewed it and I'm in Florida.

Well... er... unknown by me, then? That's accurate

titanium - how did you miss Oldboy? Entertaining.

I am popping in to lay the smack down on this wanker.

quote:

I'd say either City of God or Oldboy. Those are landmark cinematic events that will, years from now, join the ranks of the all time classics and inspire countless aspiring filmmakers and influence thier styles. They were perfectly made, perfectly written and perfectly shot and were films you watched upon their release, already knowing that they would one day be considered classics. Tarnation isn't nearly as good as those, but is a technological landmark for Indy filmmaking in that it only cost 86 bucks to make. Also, I've known many more people who've gushed over eternal sunshine than CoM and still do, watching it religiously...I believe some of those people visit this board occasionally.

Sorry, dude, you've just outed yourself as a wannabe-cinephile of the type that's become far too typical in recent years. You've selected what has been fed to you. Congrats.

Let's not get into a "who's more pretentious than who" debate

City of God and Oldboy were EXCELLENT films. I'd say City of God was better than Children of Men as well.

The only thing i disagree with Hall on is his dislike of Children of Men which was an amazing film. I think some of his examples of other fine films are valid.

Oldboy is a wonderfully twisted piece of entertainment but i wouldn't put too much depth in it.

If everyone's List Of Top Ten Films were identical, what a bleak and brainwashed world that would be.

Just like religious debates, the best way to convince someone NOT to believe a single word you say is to use stiff stuff-it-down-your-throat dogma. Hall, I know you are a huge fan of David Lynch. Please observe the way he advocates his style of storytelling. He doesn't force people to believe the way he does, but people somehow WANT to believe what he believes just because he is so smooth and friendly and powerful. Its a much more effective means of persuasion. I know how you feel though. (I found myself giving speeches and rants very similar to yours 5 or 6 times a day) However, it just doesn't work.

I just saw Pan's Labyrinth, and I have to say I think I expected a bit more. It was very good and very well done, but I really just felt there was something kind of missing. I'm not quite sure what though. The only thing that really bothered me about the movie other than that was the stupid cuts, where it goes behind something and pops up somewhere else. They had about 20+ of that same style of cut in there it seemed like, and I didn't really dig the way it flowed most of the time. Also it was quite brutal in some parts, but in every scene that I knew was brutal I would just think of CoM and how much more brutal it was, lol.

This topic, like many others, got completely derailed. I don't even know why we're arguing if CoM is the best movie of the past 5 years...it definately is not, and City of God and Old Boy were better films...I'm just saying I think it was a great film of 2006. People also seem to attack the writing, but I liked it. Wasn't amazing, but it had good characters, and it got a very universal point accross with finesse, rather than say, the Mack Truck approach of Michael Moore.

Either way, I don't care anymore. All I have to say is this statement:

"Oldboy is a wonderfully twisted piece of entertainment but i wouldn't put too much depth in it."

I know several people who would burn your house down for that statement. Me not being one of them, but it certainly wasn't just an exploitation film or piece of shock entertainment.

And I'm surprised you haven't heard of the movie, pretty much every film nerd in the world has been raving about it the past 4 years.

I'm not trying to dis on Oldboy, I own and love Oldboy, but after seeing Lady Vengeance, i thought that explored it's themes and topics more thoroughly.

Anyway. I think Pan's Labyrinth was the only bit of good news in the oscar nominations.

Has anyone here seen 'The Devil's Backbone?' It's by the same director and apparently deals with some similar subject matter?

Seems like the Mexican directors are having a really good year – Pan's Labyrinth, Children of Men and Babel.

quote:

Originally posted by Evan Kubota:

Sorry, dude, you've just outed yourself as a wannabe-cinephile of the type that's become far too typical in recent years. You've selected what has been fed to you. Congrats.

Sorry, "DUDE." I am absolutely NOT a wannabe cinephile. You guys on the overpopulated northeast, west and southeast coasts think you know what is what because everything's at your back door, even though you've never seen a Jorgen Leth experimental...you think you have it all figured out, think you're real cinephiles, huh? I'm a HS kid who lives in rural wisconsin...nothing is at my back door...nothing is in my theatres...nothing is in my video stores. I have to travel 4 hours just to see a Lynch film on opening night, just to see bergman's final picture on opening night. I've traveled to Indiana to watch a lecture on Bresson, to Minneapolis to watch a Bertolucci talk about the state of contemporary, european cinema. I had to drive my car to des moines and stay at my freind's dorm in drake because I wanted to watch Battleship Potemkin while Uli 35 played the score (if you want to experience the film for its true power, that's the way to go).
I spend the money I earn on expanding my knowledge of the art form...on buying films that are slowly being lost, just to keep them alive. I've interned at film festivals... I'm no spoon-fed cinephile. It's hard to find a real cinephle anymore. Many of you think Children of Men is the greatest film ever concieved. That's fine. But have you seen the work Jacque Lesille or Kieslowski or Ramsay or the Dardenne brothers , ect...? You can think it's the greatest film ever, but I recommend you watch a few more films before conceding to that conclusion because there is a world of greatness out there that extends far beyond the mediocre acting, wrting and dramatic direction (though he had very good direction in the shoot-out scenes, for Cuaron, he was just skating along). Just because you're an "alumnus" from posting a bunch of stuff on this board doesn't mean you're a cinephile, bud.

Also, I never said I disliked CoM. It was a GOOD film. It wasn't great. I probably would've thought it was great about 7 years ago when I was still just discovering some of the films that are really out there. In fact, I thought it was jsut fantastic the first time I saw it...fantastic...then it ended and I went to this little mexican restaurant across the street with my freinds, we talked about it...talked about other stuff, then I went to see it again about an hour after I finished eating. On the second viewing, once the visceral impact had dissipated, the flaws of the actual film (most consistent in the emotional aspect) became fully apparent. I mean...there were just too many flaws...too many pieces of acting that made me question the story's credibility (Like Kee giving her monologue on the swingset in or at Michael Caine's house in this sort of hurried, unfelt monotonal stutter...the super fast birth scene with the super CGI baby shooting out...or the Luke character's extremely overdramatic, overconflicted delivery and expression) to think that it was a masterpiece. Maybe that stuff didn't bother you...that's fine, but with all the films that writers, directors, and actors have put their hearts and souls into making...films that are deeper, more personal and much more satisfying than this one...I get on the defensive when I hear people calling CoM the best film to come along in 5 years. It's a great popcorn movie...it isn't DEKALOG.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Hall,

quote:

Originally posted by Ignis et Glacies:
Has anyone here seen 'The Devil's Backbone?' It's by the same director and apparently deals with some similar subject matter?

Seems like the Mexican directors are having a really good year – Pan's Labyrinth, Children of Men and Babel.

And yeah...the Devil's Backbone was another very good film by del Toro. It's not the same deal though...it's a ghost story, but in a similar setting...it is very good. Pan's Labyrinth was a return to form for him.

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel McLellan:
I'm not trying to dis on Oldboy, I own and love Oldboy, but after seeing Lady Vengeance, i thought that explored it's themes and topics more thoroughly.

Anyway. I think Pan's Labyrinth was the only bit of good news in the oscar nominations.

Lady Vengeance or Mr. Vengeance? If you're talking about Mr. Vengeance, I can see where you're coming from (lady vengeance was that psuedo-snuff horror film made in Korea...it was nasty), but I thought the immediacy of Oldboy and the utterly tragic ending in which he exposes his humanity to the extreme, made it a very, very exceptional film. Mr. Vengeance was pretty dank at times, but it sitll had an impact. They're part of a trilogy though, so that sort of puts the similarity of themes into perspective.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Hall,

[edited - try again without breaking any flaming rules please]

This message has been edited. Last edited by: titaniumdoughnut,