Just looking at the thumbs for Lex Talionis and Show Me The Money I've seen that people think that they are being original, when really all they're doing is ripping off other shots. Yes, let's be film students and learning new things, but please tell me, whatever happened to being new and different?

Have you heard of the expression, "Before we know where we're going, we have to know where we've been"? Well, many of the filmmakers on this site are just now learning the craft, and like most young filmmakers, before they can develop their own style, they must learn how to first tell a story and perfect the basics of filmmaking. We should give everyone some time before we demand them to create completely original, ground-breaking work -- that's hard enough for industry professionals.

Both of the films in question were by high school kids. They probably have limited cinematic background. I give them credit for being able to click off a few shots and cut them together in a remotely coherent fashion.

That said I often have similar thoughts watching student and independent films. I usually don't say anything because it's a separating discourse more than it is provocative and helpful to any filmmaking community.

AlsonThorne is right on for the most part. I started off making 2 minute movies about my friends gun battling over toaster waffles. Baby steps are good. The successful ones eventually move on to make leaps though.

[This message was edited by NotaMono on November 26, 2002 at 01:14 AM.]

NotAMono nailed it. Young film makers are just that, young. As a result, their work relays their youth, and lack of experience. When its from a highschooler, I dont get to picky, although, if you are a young film maker, and your reading these posts, take it to heart.

There is no required age for creativity, and originality. Just because you can get away with doing something to death, dosent mean you should. Try something new, come up with something original, or atleast try to think of an original way, to tell an old story.

Look at "Memento". A man seeks justice against the people responsible for his wifes death. Not original. Throw in his short term memory loss, and a movie that plays in reverse to give the audience a truer perspective of how being him feels, and you have something one of a kind. Im not saying you have to make "Memento", but dont just do it because you like it.

Ask the questions. Why am I making this movie? What is the story I have to tell? Is there a better way to tell this story? If you take the time, you might just be suprised by the ideas you come up with. If you keep making movies, there will always be someone who will watch them, but if you want more viewers, your going to have to be more original.
R. M. McWhorter

And you shall know us by the trail of dead.

The film "Lachrymose" on this site is a great High School production. It got certificate of merit at the San Francisco film festival and was screened at the L.A. film festival.

Actually both of your films on this site are quite good Moses(Personally I think 'A Child Named Corn' is better). I don't think the point is whether certain people of your age group are capable of making decent productions.

The point is that it's perhaps a little unfair to throw out a broad criticism such as "this is unoriginal" to relatively new and young filmmakers (Which is actually a very valid, if vague, criticism for most).

I don't know where I'm going with this. Never stop learning. That's all I wish to say.

-Peace

Amen Rob, Amen

And you shall know us by the trail of dead.

Well one thing you have to take into effect is the lack of talent. Im a High-school student and my acting/writing resources are very limited. I dont see whats wrong with starting out with some simple films starting out, I thought memento was filmed great and tried to apply some of those techniques to a script I just wrote, not because I want to make the movie memento. I just want to try out those techninques. See what works well, play around.

Please don't speak your mind unless you have put something forth your damn selves. I don't know what all of you have done or plan to film/produce but...keep that in mind. High School films...damn that is cool enough that those kids are going for it at such a young age...KEEEP ON FILMING...don't let jackasses tell you off.

S.Tyler Wilson

Jeez Tyler! I think you missed the point. Either that, or you have been involved with to many of those "angry" message boards. I think we, (atleast I know this to be true of myself, and Notamono) were trying to encourage originality.

I dont think there is anything wrong with fashioning something in the style of say, "Memento" provided it isnt the same story. Memento, while many considered a non linear story, was actually, the definition of linear. Each scene, depended on the scene before for its very survival, and structural integrity. I think its a great idea, keep it up.

Also, I am the worlds biggest advocate ( next to Robert Rodriguez) of "Shoot something!" I do think it is great that highschoolers are shooting, i think thats fantastic. I hope nothing stands in their way.

But, you can say you have no money, you can say your actors suck, but dont tell me your wittting is limited, or your creativity, and story telling for that matter. No, you cant do "Die hard" but you can do something good. Here is an exercise for the younger ones. (older ones too for that matter.) Get a couple "actors". Pick out 2 or 3 props. (ie: shovel, gun, rope, chain, blow dryer.) and a location, (ie: abondoned factory, section of woods, old tool shed) bring your talent, and your props, and then ask the group. "Ok, whats are story?" Force yourself to create, and be original. Most will suck, but some great stories can come of it. They might even inspire a larger story. Try to keep them short, and to the point. Expand with experience. Thats it, good luck.
R. M. McWhorter

And you shall know us by the trail of dead.

I wasn't saying that those films were good in the story department...I was just saying, "keep filming". I understood that you didn't care that those kids were showing effort but tired of hearing the same old "shot em up" story...I agree. If you check out my other discussion you'd see that I think that that type of story is old and used and not to mention, pointless...well in most cases. I was talking more to the other people who seemed to be "SO EXPERIENCED" but to my knowledge don't even have a film on this site...if they do please let me know so I can compare their stories and production to those of the high school students. Funny thing I've learned from watching the films on the site is that most of the goods ones are from High School kids, or NYU Tish. I'm a college student myself and I must say that most of the college students seem to think that they are the next "GREAT THING". And no, I'm not a member of the "angry message board fan club" but do feel frustrated when I see people putting down others when they cannot back it up, but not necessarily you, but for the others.

S.Tyler Wilson

#1 thing in a good film "A good script" without it you have nothing. Or, I should say, a great original story will get you farther than good editing etc.

Most people in Hollywood would rather see something that is original even if it looks like crap, just as long as it's interesting...

The best thing not to do is think of someone else's work while you work, be yourself! Every great film
maker has a "voice".... what is yours?

It's funny, the thing I've heard the most about student films are that there are too many guns and no story. Also, that they are often just trying to be shocking or weird for sake of it.... I've seen some excellent student films though for sure!


Just tell a good story, it's actually as simple as that. If it has a gun or is "off" so be it.


Good luck!

Jay-.

i think the film process in itself is linear. think about how the final product depends on the acting which depends on the director who depends on the script and so on. get it right from the start.