To all the young film makers out there. Maybe some of you already know, I'm sure you do, but if not, please do not adapt yourself to only Hollywood films and don't listen to those fools who tell you that you can't make it in the biz unless to conform to Hollywood trends.

It has come to my attention that most reviews and comments about films on this site are compared to HOLLYWOOD. Really...Hollywood can put out some impressive films but think for yourself before joining that cult of an industry. For real...a few people on this site praise Hollywood like the Bible(what up Jay).

Sure, Hollywood has classics and greats...I mean I love old films from the golden age(some of my favorites) but keep your mind open to new ideas and films from all around the world.(many of you know this of course).

Do you think Kevin Smith was all about Hollywood when he got his start? Was Spike Lee all about Hollywood? How about Ang Lee, Hal Ashby, even Orsen Wells, who was Mr. Hollywood, went against Hollywood trends and Citizen Kane was and is DOPE because of that fact. Damn...I don't know, just don't understand all this mis lead info and hype.

"I don't have time for film school...I'm too busy making movies" lol

I think were on the same page here, but I shall interject.

A great deal of film students want to be in "Hollywood". They want comercial careers, and to make money, making films. However, many of these same film makers make short films with absolutley no comercial value. This isnt to say that all you films should be as such, but if you cant tell a story people would want to pay to see, then you cant work in Hollywood. This isnt conforming to the "Hollywood" way, this is making good narative films.

When Daren Arnofsky made "pie", he made it a huge success by an extreme marketing method. He printed up thousands of stickers, featuring the symbol for pie, and stuck them everywhere. In cabs, on the subway, phonebooths, restrooms, everywhere. Day in, and day out, people stared at these little symbols, not knowing what they were. When he released the film in theaters (2, to be exact) he simply put that symbol on the marque. Everyone who walked by said, "Oh, hey, thats the thing thats on all those stickers we keep seeing." The film had the biggest opening weekend for a independent thatrical debut in history.
In the end, it certainly helped that Daren was a visualy creative, and cutting edge film maker, but what got Hollywood interested was his box office take. Had he not done so well, there is a good chance no one would have heard of him, or his films.
The same is true of the "Blair Witch" film makers, and their related web site. It created a buzz, and inturn, a successful film.

My point is simply this, that two frame cut in of a man, hanging by his kneck, that is supposed to represent the opression the common working man feels.... Hollywood dosent care about that. They have seen millions of "Student Films". If you are a student film maker, my advice is simply this. Strive to be more than JUST a student film maker. Dont make student films, make good films. Films people want to see (even if they dont know that they do) Original films, powerful emotional films. Take me someplace ive never been, to experience the life of someone Ill never know.

If you make artistic films (AKA: People think they suck, but you hide behind calling it "Art".) thats fine, more power to ya, but dont expect a career in Hollywood.
R. Michael McWhorter
www.tizzyentertainment.8m.com
www.tizzystoryboardartist.8m.com

And you shall know us by the trail of dead.

dont adapt your self to anything because of its position in the social hiarchey of the film world. if a film is good its good, reguardless of the place which it came from. high budget or no budget hollywood or not, good movies are not defined by their geographic location. they come from everywhere

Dude??? Your getting the wrong idea from me. I'm basically saying what Tizzy just said... just with more tone;-). I'm trying to push you guys to greatness...


I'm not telling you guys to try and do a "Hollywood" movie in the typical (block buster) sense, I'm telling you to "write a good story" then film it. It's pretty straight forward. It could be about anything (What's with all the guns and death? that is so played out). All I'm saying is try your damnedest to move past this phase, the sooner you do, the sooner you open yourself up to make a great "film". Too many newbies rely on guns and the word f#ck for emotional impact (it's really empty emotionally). It may work to you and your friends but to established people in LA it's old news. Like I've said before if that is your specialty at least give yourself a distinct "voice", or try to.

BTW... Is "Adaptation" a quote 'Hollywood Film' probably not, but that is the type of film my wife would go after. In fact she was part of it. i remember hearing of that flick about 6 years ago, but back then it was straigh, meaning it was still about the book (and not the 'Adaptation' of it).


When I say "great film", it could be about anything, take a chance on something new something different, something whacky or weird or touching or mature. It could be about the guy who paints the lines on the street, it could be about a librarian and their quirky relationship with books. I'm just throwing ideas out? The point is; taking something that may not seem interesting on the surface and making it interesting through 'the script'... a
great script!


For an interesting project you could try something like this: Think of the most mundane situation, now try write a script about it that is interesting. You may just end up with your best work yet. In fact I'm betting you will....


Does any of that make sense to you? Try to hear what I'm really saying....


w

BTW... The only thing I'm suggestion you take from "hollywood" is the ability to tell a story in a cohesive manor.

Just a few films I'd like people to think about:

The Hours
Adaptation
Chicago
About Schmit
Far from Heaven
Secretary
The Good girl
Talk to Her
City of God
The Pianist
Gangs of new York
Personal Velocity
Open Hearts


etc........

man..........it all has to do with your point of view. obvously by the list you gave you have a very main stream view of what a good movie is. i dont.......

Thanks for thought out responses...guess we are all on the same plain here...cool beans.

"I don't have time for film school...I'm too busy making movies" lol

quote:

---

obvously by the list you gave you have a very main stream view of what a good movie is. i dont.......

---

For the most part, perhaps, but I would hardly call, "The Good Girl", "Secretary", an "The Pianist" main stream. These were films made outside Hollywood, that Hollywood later embraced. Why? Because they could make money.

And Jay888...
What you said might have been harsh, but true. Sometimes things of this nature need to be layed out in a "No Frills" way.
R. Michael McWhorter

And you shall know us by the trail of dead.

FANTAZMAGORIC-

Look, I'm not here to be an underground supporter, if that's your gig have at it. My perspective is from someone who is very close to someone who is on the inside. You can take my words and think about them or not. [Just remember: if you are the only person that can understand your flick.. it doesn't mean you are a genius it means it's 'most likely' a piece of crap.......] BTW.. Why no links to your work? Please show me what a great film is, then..... the stage is yours.


The Mind-

No prob, I've seen some of your other posts and we have more in common than you may think. We're just saying it differently.


Tizzy-

Yeah your right, I'm a bit harsh I think it's better that way.. it'll show people what they are in for once they get to LA. It's best not to be blind sided... At least they wont be shocked by the
attitude when they get here.


------

You know I was asking my girl if it's possible for a no-namer to get signed off of a short, her response was "It has happened, but very rarely.... It has to be the second comi ng of jesus for that to happen. What you see more is a super hyped amazing 'short' with a great script attached. Showing that this person can also write a 'feature'."

Anyway, so I've asked my girl to get me copies of shorts that are "GOOD", shorts that p eople in the industry are talking about or have talked about. I'll post a few of them when I get 'em.

I have one now called "Asterix & Obelix", I don't know if it's good or not but apparently they are having some success getting noticed or whatever (I really don't know the story on this?)??

[

[This message was edited by jay888 on February 19, 2003 at 01:01 PM.]

"I have one now called "Asterix & Obelix", I don't know if it's good or not but apparently they are having some success getting noticed or whatever (I really don't know the story on this?)??"

Asterix and Obelix is a French story/cartoon. It was made into a French feature "Astérix et Obélix contre César" a couple of years ago starring Gérard Depardieu and the beautiful Laetitia Casta (of Guess/Victoria Secret fame).

-Chris
Studentfilms.com

Cool Jay888, and I agree. It is a hard, harsh world out there in Hollywood. The sooner folks realize, the sooner they can adapt.

As for the shorts...
That would be very cool. Id love to see whats getting (or gotten) Hollywood buzzing. Could prove to be a good lesson. And yes, if Hollywood did notice a short, they would want, at the very least, a feature length script as well.
R. Michael McWhorter
www.tizzyentertainment.8m.com
www.tizzystoryboardartist.8m.com

And you shall know us by the trail of dead.

Chris-

Yeah your right. I just watched it.. after about 45 minutes it occurred to me that "this isn't a short". Oh well, so I just watched a hilarious foreign film. I thought over all it was very funny. It's hard to use cliched moments and have it work. I dunno, pretty cool I thought. This is a film you can't pitch, you just have to see it. ;-)


Tizzy-

You got it. I'm getting a few in the next couple days. I'll let you know what they are...

BTW- the other flick is "Pieces of April" (DV Sundance). One film I know of off hand was by Justin Lin (sp?) Can't remember the name of the film though ("Better Luck Tomorrow" I think?) It is a feature about asian guys in Irvine California... It's supposed to be released in March I think. He got a deal to do basically whatever he wants over at MTV. Again this is a feature not a short, and the script is supposedly amazing (as well as the film). I haven't seen it but that is the word on it.h

Quote by Jay...

"Just remember: if you are the only person that can understand your flick... it doesn't mean you are a genius it means it's 'most likely' a piece of crap......."

I agree. It's kinda funny when you get people who defend their art and call it "different" and think therefore that it is "great" and "untouchable". I'm in school with about 15 people like that...I wish they would read that post by Jay...If in fact you are reading this (people from my school) take that "crap" and "genius" comment into consideration please. It will only help you in the end.

Although, I'm not saying my stuff isn't crap...In fact, every time I make a new short, I find that my old ones tend to be more crap and the older the short the more crap it is. Make those 20 pieces of crap, then move on to bigger and better things...I know I still got about 8 more crap films. JOIN THE CLUB!

"I don't have time for film school...I'm too busy making movies" lol

why do you have to be on one side of every issue?

cant i just like movies reguardless of where there from? im not all obsessed with words like "underground" or "hollywood". thats all Irrelevant. its like saying that a UGO is a better car than a porsche because someone took it down the highway instead of the backroads......i just like movies........and a movie dosnt have to be hollywood to be mainstream to be good. those are just the roadways that directors are forced to choose......

and who ever said people dont understand my work?
i sure didnt........i would gladly show you something if my capture card worked right and i didnt have a slow ass country middle of fukin no where internet connection.....

im not trying to put my self above anyone, im just speaking my mind so you better learn to deal with my honesty because im not changing for anyone. i just happen to think that if every movie reviewer and entertainment show is ranting about something like The Pianist and how great it is, its mainstream.....

Okay, I think you are saying that you like movies because they are movies. You seem to think that all movies can be good not just Hollywood or independent movies or movies from across the sea but all of these movies can be good. I agree. You made a great point about viewers. I seem to notice lots of people who say things like "I only like indie movies" or "Hollywood movies are the only real-deal flicks out there"...yeah what the hell? Fraz, is one of the first people to point that out, the spectrum of movie types can not be divided into this side is good and this side is bad...you have to look across the whole spectrum to really understand what is good and bad in filmmaking and story telling...my opinion of course.

"I don't have time for film school...I'm too busy making movies" lol

I agree with both of you guys to a certain extent...

I'm not hear to be one-sided, although I am here to offer words of advice (to those that want it) as far as how things "really" are in LA . That is my strong point as far as information... you guys got everything else covered.

theres another peve of mine.....F U C K! L A!...
im gonna do what i need to right here in hicksville NM......

Great attitude. I'm sure you'll be very successful "THERE"...



BTW... Here's a peeve of mine:

Student film makers that think they are GODS GIFT to film making. Kids that have a bigger EGO than anyone of the many filmmakers that the y conti nually disrespect. Ego's built on 1 or 2 sh!tty short films (FILMS THAT THEY HAVE TO EXPLAIN BECAUSE NO ONE UNDERSTANDS THEIR "VISION". I personally think you a full of sh!t when you say you don't care to make it "HERE", I think you're just too scared to move away from MOMMY... The guys on this site that may go on to have a successful "CAREER" in film making will give a sh!t what you think of them or their film making abilities... just remember that 5 years from know when you are sit ting there watching one of your buddy's films on the big screen (one that moved to LA and hooked it up), and you're scraping by trying to finance another ass short.... hey at least you are an "artist".

You are too NAIVE to realize that you don't k now sh!t...


Don't worry I will get bored with this site, and split (SOON).... It's too bad too because you never know, I might have seen the next "whoever", and probably could have helped them get into the "REAL" film world.... But I refuse to help dudes that already know "everything", and have a sh!tty attitude.... But yes I know, you don't need me.... So there you are.

[

[This message was edited by jay888 on March 06, 2003 at 07:37 PM.]

Those who would assume to know everything about a person they have never met based upon a few simple words are the ones who are truly full of $hit. And those who continually accuse people of having an ego problem are in fact the biggest narcissistic kunts around. You’re the pathetic fuk that’s trying to front like he's some kind of Hollywood big shot. so don’t accuse me of having an ego problem.

"I might have seen the next "whoever", and probably could have helped them get into the "REAL" film world."

Damn I’ve really fuked up now I’ve offended some big Hollywood big shot looking for the next 'whoever'. do you actually think that anyone will buy that bull$hit? You need to pull your head out of your a$$ man. Even if you were SOMEONE you would still be NO ONE to me. Im not interested in 'help' getting into the 'real film world'. If Im meant to make it in the 'real film world' I will do so on my own, just like any other 'real film maker' would.

But no wait actually I think your right. I take it all back. I am afraid to move away from mommy. I am going to pack all my bags and move out to LA as soon as possible. maybe I can get some kind of a rat infested $hithole apartment along the San Andreas fault for $1500 a month. Then maybe if im lucky I can get a $hity job delivering pizza for $5.00 an hour. Damn why didn’t I think of that before? I’ll save so much money that way. I mean fuk NM and all those great abandon building locations I could have used for free. fuk all of the canyons and cliffs and wide open spaces, I need freeways and skyscrapers and cement. Man I cant wait until the day I live in LA and need a permit every time I want to take a $hit. Now that’s freedom! I mean $hit anybody who’s anybody knows that if you want to be a real director you just go to LA and get it 'hooked up'.

Do you think Peter Jackson left NZ for LA to get it 'hooked up'? should Sam Raimi have left MI for LA? Both those guys are where they are now because of what they did in their home towns with nothing but their own creativity. Not because they were rich LA brats with connections.

You really need to get your $hit straight.
I have never had any kind of problem with people understanding my 'vision' nor have I ever had to explain my 'vision' $hit I’ve never referred to it as my 'vision'.
and I have damn sure never claimed to be gods gift to anything. So where you are getting all this crapp still remains a mystery to me. All I know is that my only happiness comes from making movies. and if necessary I will die trying. And I will do it my way regardless of what you or anyone else has to say about it.

Hey at least you were right about one thing. I don’t need you, or your opinions, or LA for that matter. Thanks but no thanks for your concern. too bad your too _NAIVE_ to see that im the one that doesn’t give a fuk what you think of me or my film making abilities...........

Signed
Proud to be disliked by the likes of you

"My perspective is from someone who is very close to someone who is on the inside"

so you sucked joel Schumachers dick once or twice dont get cock-y