I have been amazed by the large amounts of overused music in the movies on not only this website but others...I have see the main title music from Signs be used FIVE TIMES now in a studentfilm...isn't that a little ridiculous??? Not only Signs but the Matrix as well. I actually hate hearing the same song being used multiple times in different films...kinda degrades from it. Plus they are well known themes.

TacoWagonProductions

I'm gonna be a pilot when I grow up!

A perfect example: Duel of The Fates

And another one: Spybreak (Matrix lobby fight scene song)

Yet another one: Any Star Wars song

The list goes on and on. I hate that people use songs so many times to the point that I wince at the sound of them.

Pointgravity Productions

I's hard for me to watch movies that use these "unoriginal" songs because I can't take them seriously. I'm not sure if the film is trying to be serious or is joking around...I mean, the theme from "SIGNS" is going to students heads...hey...I thought it was a pretty good theme too (even though I hate SIGNS) but what that DOESN'T mean is that i'm gonna use it in everyone of my films from now on. I don't think it expresses anything but "Hey, I was too lazy to either get someone to COMPOSE an original score...or use some of my own CDs or download some original music/songs that havn't been used in film yet...that I'll just rip-off the soundtrack from The Matrix and Signs."

And the whole Matrix music...I've seen WAY too many studentfilms in which that Lobby shootout and Kung-fu spar song have been used...for the same type of scene. It's really annoying.

TacoWagonProductions

I'm gonna be a pilot when I grow up!

that and the entire soundtrack from Snatch and Lock Stock of course,

except for the fact that the soundtrack of Snatch and Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels are not original, so it could be coincidence, not saying it is, I just like giving the benefit of the doubt. But lately the most overused music I've heard is from American Beauty. The Main Theme (Dead Already?) is begin used over and over. Will the madness stop?!WILL IT EVER END?!

How was I supposed to know it was a guy in a suit?Besides, anyone willing to wear a Mickey Mouse suit deserves to get hit by a car...that and my brakes failed, kind of.

Aleksyev, are you a member of the forums of AlamDV? Because you have the same signature as one of the main users there...

Pointgravity Productions

Thank you! I mean that..... I like the way you guys are thinking!


That was exactly my point in the "original music" thread. Yes, after a while these songs (or themes) become a parody of themselves. Using this music (indefinitely) will only serve to discredit your films authenticity, as well as you authenticity as a director. It's just not the best move.


BTW... There are young film makers (some) that even use real orchestral recordings for their film (meaning it's not a mockup.... music that was written for thei r film). Obviously you don't have to do this, considering the awesome new sample libraries (it's getting to the point where only composers can tell that it's samples) -- as well you may not want orchestral music. But when someone goes to the trouble of hiring a composer and then "wants" to use a real orchestra or players, you know they are dead serious about their work . And that is what people will think when you present them this film. Your work ethic is something people in this business do consider.... (BTW... it's not cheap to do live music, so don't even think of doing this unless you somehow get it for free or are doing something very serious. Just so you know, players are around $80 an hour and a full orchestra is around $10,000 a day. Don't worry about this now, though, but it will be upon you soon!)


Another thing: Many times in student films I hear music that is way too big for what is happening on screen. To have a film with only two cast members (or so) and then laying in the theme to Signs w ill only serve to show people that you don't understand what type of music will work on a creative level. As well 99% of the time the cues don't fit timing wise. So what you are left with is this HUGE Hollywood style score (the doesn't fit even the emotion of the film) laid in against this low quality film. It just doesn't work on a creative level. You're better off using music that sounds a lot smaller. Big sounding cues were crafted to fit big LOOKING films..... Just part of the learning p rocess.

There are so many great composers (and bands) out there. There's no reason we shouldn't be hearing original music.


This thread is giving me hope, glad to see it! Glad to see you guys are learning what doesn't work on a creative level. You ar e one steep closer doing what "DOES"! Well done!


Jay

I really really really want orchestral music in my films, but I don't think I am willing to take the scores from other movies and add them to mine. I don't think that would work. Like Jay888 said, it would be a BIG score for a small movie.

But I heard about this contest...I think students write an orchestral piece and enter it into the competition. The music is judged, and the winner is sent to California and gets to conduct his own orchestra. That would be so sweet. The orchestra is yours for a day or two or however long it is, and they learn your piece and perform it for an audience. AND, I think the whole thing is recorded professionally for stuff like movies.

I would love to enter, but I have never had practice writing music for an orchestra. I've only written stuff on piano.

I'll try and find the link to the website for the competition...

Pointgravity Productions

Try this link. It's the best one I've found for composing competitions (but there are many others out there). www.composersforum.org/opps/callsforscores.html

Sure 'real' soundtracks might sound good, but if you want your film to make an impact you need original music. (In my opinion that is )

What I don't get is, why rip off the music from Hollywood films when there's lot of composers out there and on these boards willing to work for free?

....

"Any mystery devised by mortal minds can be solved therewith." -- Sherlock Holmes

I wonder if anyone is refering to The Black Box since its mine and probably the most recent film on here that used some music from Signs in anyone's film. I wasn't aware of any films on this site that had that music. I guess I haven't seen them. The point is many of you guys look down on people who don't use original scores. I write my own music to most of my films, but I did not for The Black Box because I simply did not have time. That movie was my final for film class at school, and we were up until 4 in the morning editing on the night of the final to finish it. So I think I have a reasonable excuse not to have an original score.

Another thing. I think the music from Signs fits the film quite well, and for most of the movie when you hear that music its combined with something else as well because I wanted it to sound a little bit different. I guess really listens for that kind of stuff but oh well. I guess if we hear this music then the movie automatically sucks. I bet you didn't notice the fact that there was also music from The Bone Collector, Sleepy Hollow, and Thirteen Days. I bet you guys didn't pick that up. We didn't have time for an original score for this film, and I don't know about you guys but after I finish a film, I DO NOT like to watch it again for at least a month. Once it is finished for me, it is finished. I suppose I could have redone the score after we turned in the film for our final, but I didn't want to because I get sick of my own movies. Does this happen to anyone else?

Anyways The Lost Soldiers has original music in it (not the Trailer but the scene after) and maybe someone will say something good instead of crack on everyone who uses music from other movies. Whenever it gets on here, check it out.

Oh yeah, it also has occured to me that a lot of the composers anywhere really suck. I mean alot. So maybe instead of making their films worse by adding a sh*tty original score, people would rather have the movie feel better to watch.

I dunno, these are my opinions. I do think that a lot of music is overused, but I wasn't intending to send my movie in here to get bashed because it used music from signs. When I made the movie, I didn't think of how people were going to react to it on this site because I didn't know about it then. I think the music from Signs can be used in much worse ways than I used it in my film. I'm done for now.

Thomas Verrette
tommy21485@earthlink.net
Imperial Pictures

I have nothing against you or your film Imperial...it's just now there are 3 films on this website with the music from Signs. It's a well known thing...when ever I hear a theme I recognize from another movie all I think about is the actuall movie it was taken from...I'm disstracted. I've seen 5 student films now that use the theme from Signs...each one being VERY similar...either a credit sequence...or something to do with a chase. I just don't find it original. As far as using those other themes you mentioned, hey that's great...I didn't recognize 'em because they arn't well known or have become famous.

Think of it this way...The Signs theme is becoming like the theme from JAws...how many f****** times have you heard the Jaws theme outside the actuall Jaws films? WAY TO MANY TIMES that it becomes a cliche...need some tension? JAWS theme. OOo! Here comes the unseen killer's POV. JAWS theme. The same thing is happening to the theme from Signs.

TacoWagonProductions

I'm gonna be a pilot when I grow up!

Why do people always give excuses for their films? Oh, sorry, my new film, uh uh, Terminator 3 sucked, cause, uh, my grandma got sick when we were writing it, and uh uh, my dog threw up on the new carpet when we were gonna shoot the shootout scene and I got distracted.


And BT's SMARTBOMB is raped in both movies and movie trailers.

The thing is Imperial...I don't feel

quote:

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the music from Signs fits the film quite well

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You used it almost no different from the other 2 films. The music from Signs is the 1st song you hear in your film...guess what? It is for the other two on this site aswell. I'm not trying to be an assh*** or anything to you dude...I repsect you and your film...I actually found it well done (I still don't understand it yet though ) It's just the music is overused...you should of found something different that was "less" used.

As for the films on this site that use the music from Signs for the opening;

the black box
the game
the peak of evil

TacoWagonProductions

I'm gonna be a pilot when I grow up!

Yeah I liked your film too, but I didn't understand one BIT of it...please explain.

Pointgravity Productions

quote:

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Originally posted by pgPyro:
Aleksyev, are you a member of the forums of AlamDV? Because you have the same signature as one of the main users there...

Pointgravity Productions

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nah, never even visited that site, I got the sig form a friend of mine, who knows where he pulled it from.

How was I supposed to know it was a guy in a suit?Besides, anyone willing to wear a Mickey Mouse suit deserves to get hit by a car...that and my brakes failed, kind of.

LOL about not understanding it!

A little background on the film first off as to why its so hard to understand. My friend Adam thinks he knows what Mulholand Dr. is about and what everything in the movie means and why everything happens. I felt like that was a bunch of crap so basically we came up with this movie to stump him because he thinks he knows what Mulholland Dr. is about. We stumped him.

As for an explaination. Basically, since it goes backwards, the guy with The Black Box is Jesus. haha jk. He is just a guy who represents death as does the black box itself. Basically when you go into the box you see yourself die (or someone that you love which is the most unclear part in the film i think but it was our reasoning, we just never explained it because I would rather have people try to figure it out). The scene after that they see the crooks kill the man with the black box. He runs away but he is having nightmares and dreams about it, and so he goes back to see if it was just in fact a dream, but it was real. And the crooks are there and they kill him. The opening scene is basically just a grabber to get your attention (even though it used Signs music) and to show you the fact that he was already dead. And it goes backwards so you figure out why he died. That is pretty much the basic synopsis. There are no credits in the beginning because the movie goes backwards so it was at the end.

The other reason I submitted this film is because a few months ago there was ALOT of talk about why nobody does any films that go backwards. Trying to tell a story in a different way, yet making it creative. I was hoping those people who kept saying that (I don't remember who they are) would respond. So that is basically why I sent this in.
Having done a movie like this though, I have a much greater respect for Christopher Nolan because making a film that goes backwards makes everything twice as hard, because you have to think everything both forwards and backwards way too much and it drives you crazy. LOL.

Thomas Verrette
tommy21485@earthlink.net
Imperial Pictures

Ever seen that Seinfeld episode that goes backwards? It's pretty well done.

TacoWagonProductions

I'm gonna be a pilot when I grow up!

Imperial-

I've never seen your film (but I will go watch it), so don't think I'm singling you out.

quote:

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So maybe instead of making their films worse by adding a sh*tty original score, people would rather have the movie feel better to watch.

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The other way of looking at that is this: These composers (the cues you used) are completely out of your reach at this point. You could never afford to hire composers of this level "now". As well these scores cost hundreds of thousands to write and record (a 2 mil price tag is not unheard of). The point is, this music is way out of your league. You are putting music that is in THE most expensive films ever made, into a student film? Music created by the top composers in the world... composers that have paid some enormous dues! The bottom line is, THE QUALITY IS NOT OF EQUAL VALUE ..... Add to that you aren't learning what it takes to create a real film.


These "sh!tty original scores" are in actuality the scores that match the quality of many student films. That is the reality. Don't think I'm picking on you, you'll all look back in five years and cringe at the site of your first films.... just part of the fun growing and learning. Some day your films will be mind blowing. But this involves practice, and risk.


BTW... Many composers do music for films they think suck. So it does go both ways!

*But! I will say, if your a kid in high school, there is no need to stress over an original score. You'll get there in time. Although, you still need to realize that you aren't really doing a completely accurate representation of "a film" --- because real films use original music (that's just the way it is). I just want you guys to at least start "thinking" about original music, if nothing else. You may have to sacrifice the thought of what you'd "LIKE" to use for what you are "ABLE" to get.

There will come a time after high school and college where using "stolen music" will really start to hurt you as a director. There will be guys your same age that have years of experience dealing with composers, audio, etc. These guys are actually your competition in a sense because there is only so much money to develop new projects. Look, you guys are gonna need to know a hell of a lot of stuff on this long journey. It's best to start "trying" to learn as soon as you find out that you "will" eventually need to know some of this later.


And therefor, even having a friend that sucks-azz doing your music you will have "learned" so much. You'll have learned how to work with someone creatively, what works and what doesn't. These films you are doing now "probably" don't mean crap as far as a professional reel goes, they are tools to "teach" you. So when the time comes you'll know most of the ins and outs of a real film. Use this time to learn, not so much to try and make an amazing film. Try not to take short cuts if at all possible..... (that's all I'm saying! If at all possible).


You'll be better for it in the long run...... (when it really matters)

As always..... it's your call.

Good luck guys, I mean that!

Jay!

Ok just watched all three....


Imperial, the problem I see with your film is this. First of all, the music is way to big sounding, for obvious reasons. This admittedly awesome music is so overbearing I don't even notice that there is a film going on in the background (that's what you do to your film when using music this big, your "film" becomes smaller not bigger. And the music is now "THE STAR" of the film. For now you need to showcase your "FILM" not "THE MUSIC FROM OTHER GREAT FILMS"). To much music not enough script. All I notice is great music and quick editing. It feels like your film was edited around the music instead of the other way around. The music choice makes this film take itself a bit too seriously. As well, when you drowned a film in music like this we have no idea what you feel is important, and we can't tell who "you" are as a director. It doesn't feel like a film, it feels like one long scene (to a degree). I can't remember any of the lines, as well I could barely hear them... you mix your dialog too low. But if you are gonna use music this huge and important sounding, you should also do ADR.

But what the hell, you're young..... It's a good first effort!

Guys, ask yourself this question: "What is my film WITHOUT this huge music from other great films?"

As well "What will my films be when I can no longer use this phenomenal music.... what will I have left?"

Know what I'm getting at.....

Just some things to think about in terms of music......


Good luck!!

[This message was edited by jay888 on May 26, 2003 at 01:57 AM.]