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Freshman
Picture of Bjere
Posted
I have read several articles that mentioned blacking the tape (inserting a fresh tape, leaving the lens cap on and setting it to record for the duration of the tape), the idea being to establish a permanent timecode and preventing a "broken" timecode from multiple starts and stops on a tape between takes.

Does this work? Is it a worthwhile thing to do? And will it work on a consumer level camcorder like my Panasonic PV-GS15? If I record something new does it establish a new timecode? Color me confused.


"How painful to see the truth when the truth is only pain to him who sees." --Tiresias
 
Posts: 23 | Location: Arkansas City, Kansas | Registered: March 01, 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Alumnus
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There was a huge debate that stemmed from that very topic. It's around here somewhere. It dealt with how blacking the tape shouldn't be done because you should use the tape as little times over as possible so you don't ruin it, but a lot of people posted that they had no problems re-using tapes. One or two people suggested only using tapes once through and then throwing them out, DV tapes being only $4 each or so. But others (like me) use really nice $20 HD tapes, and I'll say right now that they deliver higher quality, period. You can tell the difference. And a that much, I simply can't afford to use them once and throw them out. That said, I have one tape I use over and over again, and have three others I have in reserve that I plan on using all the way through one by one.

I'm sure the search function will yield the thread I'm referring to.


EDIT: Here's one. Although I seem to recall a different one.
 
Posts: 1150 | Location: Marienbad | Registered: June 24, 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Sophomore
Picture of killswitch
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I started blacking my tapes after a very frustrating incedent involving a broken timecode. Plus, I can't stand that blue screen whenever nothing is on the tape, I prefer black.


A little floor spice makes everything nice...
 
Posts: 285 | Location: Norman, Oklahoma | Registered: March 26, 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Administrator
Picture of Josh
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I always black my tapes. But I don't do it with the lens cap on - I just record the tape in VTR (or VCR) mode. Broken timecode can really ruin your day.

And, on a related note, if you're about to record on a brand new tape, always fast forward to the end and then rewind to the beginning. Most new tapes have been sitting around for a while and as a result the tape itslef loosens up a little bit. It's good to stretch it out and tighten it up before you record. It's better for the camera and will make the tape last longer.
 
Posts: 2273 | Location: Boston | Registered: September 18, 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Senior
Picture of REDking
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black and code or die!
 
Posts: 661 | Location: Killafornia | Registered: July 02, 2004Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Alumnus
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quote:
But others (like me) use really nice $20 HD tapes, and I'll say right now that they deliver higher quality, period. You can tell the difference.


If you're spending $20 per tape for miniDV cassettes, you're spending way too much, period. Paying extra for whatever 'premium' type is on the market now is worthless - in a very comprehensive test done a while ago by (I think) Adam Wilt, it was revealed that Maxell and JVC were some of the worst in terms of dropouts and glitches, and Panasonic (made by Fuji) and Fuji were the best. Sony was near the top also, but theirs are wet-type and should be used exclusively once started.

Please quantify what you mean by "higher quality." Fewer dropouts? Less artifacting? As far as the actual picture quality, it's not going to be any different on a $20 'HD' tape (whatever that means - not like a miniDV camera that records in HD requires a special tape stock) than a $4 tape you got at Wal-Mart. Tape is not film.
 
Posts: 1871 | Location: Gainesville, FL | Registered: April 05, 2004Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Alumnus
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quote:
Please quantify what you mean by "higher quality." Fewer dropouts? Less artifacting?


Both. 90% less dropouts, and now they're never a problem. Plus the timecode is more accurate--the mechanics of the wheels are a lot smoother, so the motor runs at a more constant speed. You may say that's BS, but trust me, I tried filming a music video with a different tape and the music became un-synced within a few minutes. It keeps the time better on a better tape, or at least from my experience. It also has a 3dB higher carrier-to-noise ratio, and an extra 3 minutes at the beginning for color bars and noise tone. I just think personally it's made my videos better.

And OK, it wasn't $20, it was more like $14.
These are the Sony DVM63 HDV tapes I'm referring to.
 
Posts: 1150 | Location: Marienbad | Registered: June 24, 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Sophomore
Picture of Diego
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I've been using the lowest model panasonic tapes recently, and there fantastic, hands down.
I was using expensive sony premium tapes before, and almost always got drop-outs plus there was at least 2or3 occasions where the actual tape(ribbon) broke in half! (I had to take them apart and tape them back together)

In my opinion, I think even the cheapest Panasonic tapes beat out the most expensive Sony tapes for overall quality. (Plus, Sony tapes use a wet-type of ribbon which gunks up your camera heads faster)


__________________________

Meatloaf F*CK!!!
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Posts: 295 | Location: Montreal, Quebec | Registered: April 27, 2004Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Alumnus
Picture of joren
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Blacking a DV tape is pointless. In fact it can cause TC dropouts. I highly recommend "fluffing" or "packing" DV tapes, but no one should be blacking DV tapes.


Joren
www.jorenclark.com

"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's mind there are few. " ~Shunryu Suzuki
 
Posts: 1742 | Location: HELL-A | Registered: March 05, 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Graduate
Picture of Bruce the moose
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What's fluffing/packing?


Shakespeare says "Prose before hoes."
 
Posts: 851 | Location: Knoxville TN | Registered: October 10, 2004Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Alumnus
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quote:
You may say that's BS, but trust me, I tried filming a music video with a different tape and the music became un-synced within a few minutes.


Something's wrong with your camera, then. Even the cheapest miniDV tape in a crappy Samsung camera will hold time to within a frame or two over a period of several minutes. FWIW I've never had problems with a wide range of tapes, including Maxell, Panasonic, Fuji, and occasionally Sony. I now use the cheap Pana tapes you can get at Wal-Mart for $8.50 for a 2 pack. They work perfectly and I don't ever get dropouts.

I agree that blacking DV tapes is ridiculous - a holdover from the SVHS days (which I remember - I cut on a deck for 2-3 years).
 
Posts: 1871 | Location: Gainesville, FL | Registered: April 05, 2004Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Freshman
Picture of Bjere
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I rarely re-use tapes, for sentimental reasons I guess. I'm the type of person who just uses a new tape since I use the cheap Panasonict ones. Since I don't record over old footage, should I bother to black just my new tapes?

I'm getting a lot of good info. Thanks for everything thus far.


"How painful to see the truth when the truth is only pain to him who sees." --Tiresias
 
Posts: 23 | Location: Arkansas City, Kansas | Registered: March 01, 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Alumnus
Picture of joren
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Fluffing or packing is the same as what Josh was talking about where you fast forward and then rewind it. The tape will be at the proper tension, it will ensure the tape doesn't stretch mid-recording, and if any loose particles are going to fall off the tape, it will happen then instead of during recording.

Yeah, it's unfortunate that people think they need to black. DV cameras rewrite the time code based on when the recording starts. So, the TC could slightly slip causing small discrepancies on the tape which could make dropouts if the tape gets re-cued. Plus, it's doubling the wear on the heads.


Joren
www.jorenclark.com

"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's mind there are few. " ~Shunryu Suzuki
 
Posts: 1742 | Location: HELL-A | Registered: March 05, 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Alumnus
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I know this doesn't help you guys, but I just remembered that where I work has a Benjamin bulk tape degausser. It's like a big magnet thing designed to completely erase tapes. They say it doesn't work well with their Betacam tapes but I think it could definately handle a small miniDV tape. Maybe they'll let me have it...Score!
 
Posts: 1150 | Location: Marienbad | Registered: June 24, 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Sophomore
Picture of killswitch
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Those things are pretty cool, at the studio I work in during the school year, we just continue to reuse our tapes by erasing them with the magnet. That is if their not completely tore up.


A little floor spice makes everything nice...
 
Posts: 285 | Location: Norman, Oklahoma | Registered: March 26, 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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