Hi there!

I'm gonna film my first "real movie" (30 to 45 minutes) pretty soon. I need some advice on sound recording hardware & techniques. Any problem you got or advice will be good. Better be safe than sorry!

Here's my "setup"
- First real "movie"; only have done 3 video clip before that. I'm a software engineer, so didn't get any class on film-making.
- I have a MidiDV digital camera (Sony TRV27)
- I was thinking about using a telescopic painter-pole to hold the microphone above my actors (is it called a Boom?).
- I've seen some standard microphones @ $20, does it's enough considering my actual setup or I'm gonna get crappy sound? I've found real microphones especialy made for the TRV27, but they start at $100.
- Should I use a separate audio recorder or the one in the TRV27 is good enough?
- Should I forget about all that & record the audio track after, in studio? (sound like a lot of job, the lips-sync being the tough part)
- Does I'll get problem with vibration from my pole?
- What about the wind if I have outdoor scenes?
- And the cable? I'll need an extra cable to connect it to the TRV27. The longer the cable, the weaker the ausio signal is.

Any help welcome!
Cheers!

I used to have the same problem as you a few months ago. I really wanted to recording great sound for my video, so I researched all about it. Really what matters here is how much your willing to spend. The following setup really would be a trully proffesional audio setup and would cost under $400. First of all, I'm assuming that you have enough money to afford the following, and if you don't, just change the quallity of some of the items if they allow, to suit your budget(such as the mic itself). To get started, don't worry about a tape deck or a minidisc recorder or anything like that. Plugging the mic signal into you camcorder(which has by the way CD quality sound be it Digital-8 or miniDV) will surpass anything but a DAT or Nagra recorder, which is what hollywood flics use (but cost over $1000) The quality of recording from your camera is just fine. Not using the onboard camera mic is a step in the right direction, and I wish that more filmmakers would purchase a separate mic to use on a boom. Not only is it done %80 of the time in feature films, but also it gives a superior quality and consistancey impossible with the camera's mic. So buying a separate mic definately is a great thing to do. Now, the problem is that some really good condenser shotugn mics can cost over $500. Notice I said shotgun microphone. THis is the type that you will need, not just a handheld emcee microphone for $40. Shotgun is a pickup patern, and more specificly so is condenser. You don't need a condenser micropohone, but they are a lil better than the electret condenser shotgun microphones(more expensive as well). For the money electret condenser mics are bought for though, they are really good deals. Really good. You probrally will go for one of these under $300. A great site telling you about the three great value ENG(electret condenser) shotgun mics is at [URL=http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/review_shotgun_mics.html ]ENG mic reviews[/URL] The Azden SGM-2X is a great mic with a windscreens and a short+long capsule. Since you don't know what this means I'll explain. A long microphone is for outdoor use. Because of the fact that on outdoor shots, you are usually very far away from the subject, (and can't have the boom or mic in the picture) it needs to be high above from the talent. A long shogun microphone has a better reach than short ones, and are better choices outside. So, if it has a better reach, why can't you use it indoors as well? The problem there is that long microphones have a horrible echo problem the more confined the area is. Don't even think about using it in a bathroom. Anyway, outdoors the area is not so confined (obviously) so there is no problem. Indoors, you need a short shotgun mic. This is covered in the SGM-2X package. just pop off the long capuse and you have a short shotgun (mic of course!) Still, in very tight interiors, you might still have echo problems. Different mics best suit different situations. You should'nt have to worry too much about this though. I won't go into it much, but an even tighter pattern mic is called a cardiod condenser microphone. I'm going to need to buy one because i'm making a film that has half of it set in a bathroom(don't ask.) As you probraly figured out, these mics are even SHORTER. I promise you'll be well off with the Azden sgm-2x. Look on ebay. There is a store that sells them constantly for $200. In fact always look on ebay, they have the best prices there period, and it's great to be able to buy used and cheap. Next up, how to connect that prosumer microphone to your TRV-27. Okay, the mic is prosumer because it has to use XLR cable, not the 3.5mm cable and plug common with alot of consumer mics. This is a little bitch to connect. I will help you and anyone else to do it though. By the way, the signal will not degrate no matter how long the cable is. This happens with the 3.5mm cable depending on it's length. You take say a 10 foot XLR cable, and plug one end into the back of the mic, and the other into a phantom power outlet. All condenser mics require power, and this is the dissadvantage of using them compared to the handheld(dynamic) mics which are also cheaper but the wrong way to go when gathering sound for film most of the time. Phantom power boxes are pretty small, going for maybe $50-75, and get THEIR power from 2 12v batteries or an outlet(check the model to see what it does specifically). By the way, most ENG shotgun mics also can oppererate off 2 AA bateries. Notice though that this decreases audio quality, (not enough energy or something) at the expense of conveniese. So either way the mic has power now. The phantom power box will have an XLR output as well. Take another cable, and that one will go to the camera. So you have the XLR cable and try to attach it to the camera mic input. The xlr end is about an inch thick, how will it fit into that small 3.5mm socket?! Oh, did I also mention that 3.5mm conector is unbalanced, and if you connect a XLR cable which IS balanced, you won't even get sound from the mic? Tough situation huh? Well, luckily there are some ways to connect this cable to the camera, (it will cost another $50, damn.) But trust me, this devise is really great, and will allow you to have all the benifits of noiseless pro audio connect to your camcorder. Just look at this link Equipment emporiumThe item is called the XLRH8/DV cable. This is the cheapest sollution to connect the cable to your camera, and what you need to get if your not using more than 1 mic. equipmentemporium.com is such a great place to go for ALL of your audio needs. The guys there used to work in Hollywood and provide free answares to any of your questions on the phone. I learned basically everything i'm telling you today on that website. I'm just telling you it in a condensed, your situation senerio. Sounds good so far? Now, your not going to have someone hold the mic in their hand on a ladder or something above the actors, so a boom pole is a good idea. A telescopic painter pole would be easy to move around and store(I wish I would have though of that). Now, to connect the mic to the boom pole is the last step. You need the mic to float in kind of a free matrix so it won't rub against anything and produce handling noise, and that is what a shockmount is for. The AT8415 is the most popular and great for about $55. Shockmounts have a little thread at the bottom of them to connect to boompoles. Since a painter pole isn't made to hold shockmounts, you'll somehow have to figure a way to connect it to the shockmount sturdely. I would suggest putting a 3/8 screw into the end of the boom so it connect with the shockmount's 3/8" female end. Screw in the shockmount on with the mic and your done! Loose cable on the boom can be a problem, so consider taping it on. Now, you have a professional solution to recording audio. Next, you need an audio man, or boom operator. Instruct he or she to hold the boom a few inches out of the frame, as close as possible to the actors. The closer the mic is, the better it can record the dialogue and not the ambient noise. Yes, all that work so you can have the cleanest signal possible and stay away from ambient noise. Tell the boom operator to just experiment with the mic on a croud of talking people to see if they can que(or move the mic) to the speaker effectively, (easier with a script at hand) without making much handling noise. Oh, that brings another point, wear headphones and monitor your audio at all times. That is the only way that you can trully tell if sound is going through and is staying constant, pleasing and how you want it. Notice why directors always have the headphones? It would be a good idea to purchase an audio splitter, and give the boom operator some wireless headphones too. Don't ever go outside without some form of protection for you mic. Just try to avoid it alltogether if high winds are present. Unless you wan't to spend $150 for a zepplin windscreen (in that situation). There is a supplied foam windscreen that comes with the AZDEN mic package, and it should work most of the time. Just always monitor your audio and do something if you hear wind contact noise. A fake windscreen can be made with a sock, cheesecloth, ect. Make sure it covers the ENTIRE microphone. So take all the advise i've given you (I know it's alot..) but make the best of it, because with it you truly can create great audio. Many new filmakers hate the audio the onboard mic has and give up, just recording a silent movie or syncing with the computer mic. It shows when you do that, and it's not worth all the pain. If you can't afford an external mike (but really try to), don't worry too much about the poor sound and noise the cam mikes delivers, it's better than nothing. There is no such thing as a perfect film. You need to learn to be aggresive, and not to be so hard on yourself, the director. I find that the director himself is the biggest technical critic. If it's not so bad others will just see the film's flaws actually contribute to it's style and feel, belive it or not. I hope all of this info will help you and others acheive whatever level of professionalism you want to get to.

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Thanks a lot for the info!

I'm not gonna go for a 400$ microphone right away, but for sure I'm gonna forget the 40$ one. I'll find a cheap shotgun mic to begin with, it will be a good start. I'll try the sock trick for the wind. Now that you mentionned it, it seems to me that having headphones (at least for the boom operator) is a must.

Thanks again,
BlueFish

your welcome for the help. One of the reasons I do it is because I heard when you teach something it is reinforced again to yourself and it helps you remember the material or something.
Headphones are a must, for you too. If you look at the viewfinder and hear the signal electonicaly, you'll get a very good estimate what your audience will see and hear. Remember not to turn them up so loud though!! You won't be able to hear for days, (my own experience), but turn them up pretty high..and remember just to get a shotgun microphone..

What about zoom microphones? or are those not worth anything?

I heard that they don't work that good.
Suposedly all they do is turn up the volume as you zoom in or something. I would'nt suggest them.

Pete G. Sound Engineer, DreamScapes Music Productions LLP.
The pervious post by screenwriter_14 has a lot of good suggestions and info on the audio aspect of production. I would like to add to that post, and maybe it will help others in the future.
To Start off, DO YOUR RESEACH!!!! Different applications call for different types of microphones to be used. Some factors that go into choosing the right mic for the job are, frequency range, amplitude of the source signal i.e. volume of the sound you are recording, pickup pattern, and sensitivity just to name a few.
With out going into a physics lesson, I’ll try to explain the factors I mentioned.

Frequency- What is the frequency range of the sound that you are recording? Frequency in the simplest explanation is defined as pitch. Is this a high-pitched sound you are recording or a low-pitched sound, or possibly both? If you look at the mic specs provided by the company, you’ll see that they give you a frequency range (for example 70Hz-18KHz) and a dB value (for example + or – 5 dB SPL). For right now we won’t worry about the dB value because there are many different types of dB measurements, suffice to say, that is a topic for another day. The important part of this is where your sound source lays in the frequency spectrum. The human voice varies from 900 Hz to around 3.5KHz give or take. So if you are planning to do a lot of dialog, I would choose a mic that has a natural boost of those frequencies and rolls of the low end so you can cut out any unwanted room resonance.

Amplitude- What is the dynamic range of the sound you are recording? Is it a transient sound (i.e. a snare drum or gun shot) or is it a sound that has a sustain (i.e. constant volume) to it? Most high-end microphones have what’s known as a pad built in to the mic. A mic pad basically attenuates the incoming signal in order not to overload the mic pre amp. For a loud transient sound, I would strongly suggest using the mic pad, usually they cut the signal by 20 dB. Another important aspect of amplitude is the Gain Structure of your sound setup. This topic is far to deep to go into right now but feel free to email me if you would like to know more!!

Pick-up Pattern- All mics have what is known as a pick-up pattern, this is the area around the microphone that is effectively “heard” by the mic. There are many types of pickup patterns that can greatly increase the quality of the sound you want to capture. Here is a good link from Crown Audio that can explain pick-up patterns with pictures!! http://www.crownaudio.com/mic_htm/tips/mictip2.htm

I suggest you really learn the basics before you tackle multiple mic setups and mix on location, because there are an infinite amount of factors and little tricks you can use to make your recording sound professional.
For a head start on conquering the audio beast, I suggest “Total Recording” by David Moulton. This book is packed with great examples of microphone technique and covers the basics hands down. P.S. Look on Half.com under text books to get a good price!!



Now, some “SETUP” suggestions.
1) DO NOT LEAVE IT FOR POST!!!!!!@@#$#$%
I cannot stress this enough. I have had countless Clients come to me to Master their home recordings, and needless to say, “you can’t polish a turd!”
Get the best possible sound to tape, audio engineers are commonly thought of as “Miracle Workers”, we are not.
2) TIME CODE?
Time alignment is a daunting task. In low budget productions, I would suggest to think about how you are going to put your final product together. The easiest and cheapest way is non-linear digital editing. If you go the route of a stand-alone audio machine, like portable DAT or MINIDISC you have to think about how you will transfer the DAT to the Computer. Digital transfers require word-clock alignment and possibly sample rate conversions in order to lock the computer’s word-clock to what is being transferred.
Anyway, with a stand-alone setup I would use a clapboard so that once the audio in transferred into the computer you can align the DAT audio with the “ruff” audio from the camera mic, which will be in time since the video and audio from the camera were transferred at the same time. With a little nudging to line up the clap you are good to go! This is also good because now you have two separate takes of audio to mix as you please.
SMPTE!!! , The one word that throws confusion into the mix. Unless you have the necessary gear to stripe tapes, lock DAT decks and you are able to produce timecode for on-site setups, I would suggest to go the previous route mentioned above.
3) ADR
ADR is one way to fix bad dialog takes, although, this takes some more advanced knowledge of audio engineering. You can always go and do ADR at a post studio but that requires money, which a lot of people can’t swing when they are on a budget. This brings me back to my first point, DON”T LEAVE IT FOR POST! You’ll end up spending more money and time on something that should have been done right the first time!
4) PHANTOM POWER
Condenser mics need a DC voltage to effectively “Boost” the mics signal. A condenser mic is essentially two conductive plates that have an opposite charge. When a sound pressure wave hits one plate some amount of charge jumps to the other side creating a very small current, which needs to be boosted before it goes the mic pre in the mixing board. Phantom power is the DC voltage the “powers” the condenser mic. Cheap condensers will have batteries, there quality is so-so, but if you want to just attach the mic to the camera or mic the actors from a boom and then send the signal into the camera it works. Cheap condensers are great to put in a car engine, who cares if it gets messed up, $40 is a drop in the bucket.

This is just a snowflake on the tip of an iceberg; I hope this sheds some light on your setup questions. Please feel free to email me with any questions you might have. Soundmahn@yahoo.com website: http://www.Dreamscapesmusic.com

I have that SAME camera...

Tell me if you find anything good...I'm looking for a shotgun mic, too.

Murphman Studios.