i was just wondering wat u guys use for fire effects.

Real or digital?

We're trying to do some fire effects in our movie, but when shooting with real fire you've really got to be careful, so we're not quite sure. It's also hard, I think, to get it working correctly so that it doesn't screw up the lightning, for example.

digital will always suck. unless you have ILM to work for you. fire is one of the hardest things to do well in cg.

i filmed a bunch of real things burning against black paper in the fireplace and they came out really well in some graphics i was doing. they'd look just as good composited in a real video, as long as things like the light and grain matched decently.



that was little pieces of wood burning in the fireplace, overlaid using luminance as a mask. i set them up at angles, so the flames would match the burning objects in the video. this was particularly easy, because i was doing cg for the rest of the scene, and i could move things around a bit later.

in answer to gotan's question: real. titanuim doughnut, that sounds like an interesting idea, but i have a question, do u film actual objects in the fire place or just use the fire as stock footage?

i've thought about using kind of what the pros use. a hollow pipe with slits in it and propane running through it. then u have something to light the propane. and poof, fire.

what is the shot exactly? Will you be doing it with permits and licensed people and a fire marshal or will you be doing it guerilla style?

Well, i really wouldnt recomend full scale fire and or pyrotechnics, but if you do what titanium donut did, you can burn miniatures in a CONTROLLED environment. Film it against PURE black. Then when you composite it, you should use a luminosity key so that any transparent parts of the fire will remain that way. It not realistic if you cant see the area that the fire is supposed to be on or around.

You also need to shoot at high speed if you can (which unless you have an xl1 or similar camera, i doubt you can) and then slow it down in post to make it more dramatic and "realistic".

You can also just search the web for stock fire/explosion footage. there is alot out there, done the same way, shot against pure black (at least, they SHOULD be. quick sign of an amateur job is if it is filmed against white).

If you are going to burn a miniature, or just some debris, i strongly recomend you dont use any plastic or poly-styrene porducts, as these give off very harmful vapors. Also, dont use gasoline for fires, because it burns too quickly, has a blueish burn to it, and is too volatile. If you need a long burn, you can use rubber cement, but make sure you are out of the room and that the room is WELL ventilated. (or preferably outdoors with you and crew well away from the area until burn is over). Always have several fire extinguishers handy on any shoot.

When you edit the final piece, and composite it, it often helps to layer the fire, not just use one. This gives the "blaze" more depth.

If you need to get firelight cast on the actors faces for reaction shots, use the side of a box, cover it will crinkled aluminum foil, and some red and yellow flood lights. Have the lights pointing not directly on the actor, but instead past him, off camera. then have a grip or pa or whatever aim the foil at the actors face and tilt it back and forth. This will bounce the light frome the floods onto the actor, and create the look of firelight dancing across his face.

Hope this helped. Be safe, and Good luck.

Fire is dangerous stuff man. I am one of those kids who used to play with fire, so through stupidity I know what I'm doing now. DON'T TAKE MY ROUTE!
Get professional training if possible. If not possible, find someone who has the training.

I dont want to sound like a parent, but I know what fire can do. When working with it, use caution and common sense. I am a pyro myself and a firefighter. There was a 10 year old kid not to long ago that was playing with a mason jar of gas. It got out of control so he kicked over the jar. He was burned on over 90% of his body, and people usualy dont live over 70%. COMMON SENSE for those that are capable of understanding!

i always reference this site...god stuff:

www.detonationfilms.com

free, full dv res flames, smoke, and other good stuff. I used one of their fire clips in a reent project for a masked title and it came out great.

thanks for all the replys guys, and it's not really for a specific shot, but since i'm mainly going to film action films, i'll probably need it a lot. i'll probably use a combination of everything u guys have said. thanks.