Is there anyway to shoot something on Mini DV (or any digital format for that matter) and make it look filmic. Because I want to keep my production cost down and I haven't worked with film yet in school. I know that PAL cams shoot at 25 fps and thats really good considering that film is 24 fps. Are there any NTSC cams that can do something similarly, because I HATE HATE HATE how video looks at 29.9 fps (I think its ridiculous actually). Any info?

--MIKE

there is a new panasonic mini-dv that shoots @ 24fps. if you have $3500 to spare......but you can always convert your frame rate in something like premiere.....and add some film scratch filtering.....

Check this camera out 30 frames/s non-interlaced...looks great in final format...great in dark conditions. Can rent the GL1 most everywhere...the lense is real nice too.

With Normal Movie Mode, video is captured using interlaced frames. In Frame Movie Mode, video is captured by the GL1 in a non-interlaced form at the rate of 30 frames per second. This delivers spectacular clarity, perfect for those who need to grab high-quality images from videos for making prints, adding website content, or sending images over the Internet. This non-interlaced method was popularized by Canon's XL1S and has been acknowledged by users for its cinematic-like appearance.

"I don't have time for film school...I'm too busy making movies" lol

Yeah, Both the Cannon GL1, and XL1 have movie mode, as stated. The idea is that in mimics 24fps. In the end, it is still 29.9, but has that suttle stutter that film has. The makers of the feature, "Monsturd" shot it on a GL1, using this mode, and they just recieved some pretty descent distribution. So, it looks pretty good, tends to jitter a bit if you pan to quickly, but hey, you take the good with the bad.

As for the Panosonic, this is top notch. Ive seen quite a few things shot with this cam, and they could easily be interchanged with 16mm footage when shot right. I even know someone who shot a comercial for a jewlery store with it, and after color correction, people couldnt tell where they had spliced in some 35mm stock footage. Maybe Im setting your hopes a bit to high, but these guys usually shot wih a Beta cam, and they were using this camera instead. The thing is it has two 24p modes. One, shoots true 24p, but to edit it, you would have to use a film editing suite, like Avid Symphony, or the higher end final cut. You couldnt import it to any DV system. The other mode, shoots 24p, but does the pull down in camera for 29.9. In the end, it is similar to having film transfered to video. Looks just as good, but now can be edited in video suites. So, be sure, if you get that cam, to shoot with the right setting, otherwise youll have a bunch of footage you cant edit.

Finally, for the money, there is film look ( www.filmlook.com ) This stuff looks amazing. If you were going to shoot something for distribution. Had some descent cash, and wanted the best looking video you could get, this would be th way to go. Shoot on say, DigiBeta. Use 35mm lenses, if you can. Edit it, and send your final cut to them. They do a full color correction, and simulate 24p. If you see their demo DVD (they might have clips on the site) youll see what i mean. It looks like film. (when shot right!) The only trouble is, it costs... $99 per minute of footage, with a ten minute minimum.

Others im sure will get into the suttle tricks you can do in post to make it look, more film like. Otherwise, good luck.
R. Michael McWhorter
www.tizzyentertainment.8m.com
www.tizzystoryboardartist.8m.com

And you shall know us by the trail of dead.

Just to get people up to speed, both 24p settings on the Panasonic AGDVX-100 24p mini dv camera record as 29.97i on tape. The difference is that while one mode inserts a 3:2 pulldown using a buffer before writing to tape, the other one (Advanced?) adds a 3:2:2:3 cadence instead. This allows for a true 24p image to be extracted in post for those looking to make a film-out. Using the standard mode, every 4th frame converted to true 24p will be a combination of 2 others, while advanced will have a motion artifact if watched on 29.97 (Hence both modes are offered).

That stated, converting normal 29.97 to 24p in post will not aid you in and of itself. The motion blur would have to happen at the point of shooting if you want it to really be film-like (You could add blur in post, but that's more of a guess process: see mpeg compression). Playing things back, or removing frames or partial frames will not have the same effect. Even when you see a film (Which has been 24p since the early 1900's) in a theater you are actually watching 48fps as each frame is projected twice, so there's nothing magical about actually watching things at this rate.

In regards to Movie mode, I believe it is similarly buffered to record at 29.97 but bases it more on something like 18fps instead of 24. When using this you may want to avoid panning or other movies that will draw attention to the choppy motion artifact.

As far as other things you can do to make DV more film like, the topic came up on the old forums as well.

http://pub20.ezboard.com/fstudentfilmsfrm8.showMessage?topicID=146.topic

I don't DP a lot of DV stuff, but since that posting I've shot 4 shorts on MiniDV. I abandoned using frame(movie) mode after the 1st one. Initially I did this because one was intended for distribution on the web, and I figured if they're going to de-interlace it anyway, I'd rather start with the most information possible for the software to make it's own progressive frames. Shooting at 30fps I just decided I liked that aesthetic better for the material on the other shorts.

Of course, as Tizzy mentioned, using 35mm lenses would be a huge help in making it more film-like as well. Unfortunately the adapters (Manufactured by P+S Techniks) are very expensive to buy or rent and are available for only 1/3" and 2/3" CCD cameras (Sorry DVX-100). The next version of XL should be both 24p and 1/3" (In addition to having a few more added goodies).

While under the right circumstances one might mistake well shot 24p miniDV for 16mm film, you can't get nearly as ballsy with it visually, nor would you make that same mistake once blown up on a big screen. The aliasing on anything standard-def is wretched on a 40' screen. If you do a film out they can smoothe out some of it, but 16mm and s16 are still more inline with High-Def(Still significantly better IMO, particularly with the introduction of 7218).

Hope that helps.

Nota "Walks down the street at 96fps" Mono

It's incredibly expensive and I doubt it exist's for most consumer model camcorders, but there are attatchments you can get to use actual film lenses on a digital camcorder. It reduces the depth of field, so your images will be more dimensional like film, as opposed to the flattened image in video where everything is sharp. If you can't afford it, try, very carefully, throwing backgrounds out of focus and subjects in focus, using telephoto and manual focus. If you need to do wide, maybe get a diopeter to decrease the depth of field.

Instead of scratches, no offense, but I think they scream cheap and gimmicky, you could do a very very very light grain animation on a blue background and composite it over the video, so the image will have a grainular look, a lot more subtle than scratches, which are just too obvious.

And light with low contrast ratios so nothing gets blown out - damn is that annoying. They make low contrast filters, never used one, so can't say too much on if they work well on camcorders. And try to get texture in your shots and subjects you shoot, fit textures in somewhere, on clothes, skin, tree trunks, whatever you can without being too ridiculous.

RenR - those were some great ideas. I'm definitely going to try them out with my GL1.

Thanks for posting!

Mark M
Scooter Productions